D&D 5E Disintegrate Vs. Druid

[Maxperson]

they had this debate over on WotC a while back. Disintegrate is nasty because it screws up the corpse. But if there's a pile of you left when reduced to zero from an attack, then you can revert to heal, i think. Disintegrate also has a damage value, so if the type of shifting you have done says you 'heal' by shifting, in theory, the damage could be compared and the remainder carried over. But perhaps Disintegrate has the special effect of saying 'dust is dust', making it one of the most deadly spells in the game.

The issue is that the druids wild shape hits 0 before it transforms back and the disintegrate dusting effect triggers on hitting 0, not at the end of the damage being dealt. By RAW, that avoids the requirement that the damage carry over to the druid's normal form. By RAI, it should carry over before being turned to dust.

 

[Arial Black]

The wildshaped druid never hits zero hp.

If he would be reduced to 0hp (and/or killed), he returns to druid form instead of being reduced to 0 hp (or dying).

 

[discosoc]

The wildshaped druid never hits zero hp.

If he would be reduced to 0hp (and/or killed), he returns to druid form instead of being reduced to 0 hp (or dying).

That's incorrect. The ability reads "You automatically revert if you fall unconscious, drop to 0 hit points, or die." Page 66 of the PH, very last paragraph.

 

[Arial Black]

That's incorrect. The ability reads "You automatically revert if you fall unconscious, drop to 0 hit points, or die." Page 66 of the PH, very last paragraph.

Exactly!

Let me put it this way: imagine the wildshaped druid is in the form of an owl with 1 hp. The owl is hit for 20 damage, enough to kill the owl.

Do you think that the owl actually dies, falls to the ground, the druid's soul making its way to the afterlife, then reverts to druid form, his soul (if free and willing) recalled to its druid body as if a resurrection had been cast,

OR

do you think that the owl reverts to druid form instead of dying?

 

[discosoc]

Exactly!

Let me put it this way: imagine the wildshaped druid is in the form of an owl with 1 hp. The owl is hit for 20 damage, enough to kill the owl.

Do you think that the owl actually dies, falls to the ground, the druid's soul making its way to the afterlife, then reverts to druid form, his soul (if free and willing) recalled to its druid body as if a resurrection had been cast,

OR

do you think that the owl reverts to druid form instead of dying?

No, but the character *was* reduced to 0 HP. And that's the criteria listed in the Disintegrate spell. You're focused on the "or if you die" part while ignoring the HP part. In fact, the "or if you die" part wouldn't even come into play in this case unless the death was caused by the spell damage. So obviously wildshape can't revert by getting triggered by "or if you die" without also triggering "reduced to 0 HP." Lastly, out of the two effects at work (wildshape and the spell), the spell is the most specific, so it would win if someone wants to claim it's a "timing issue" or something between two competing effects.

I'm almost positive the intention was for Druids not to simply get auto-killed from the spell, and someone else here claims to have a twitter response saying as much, but the actual rule as written doesn't support it. It's the kind of thing I would expect to see officially clarified at some point (in favor of druids).

 

[Maxperson]

The wildshaped druid never hits zero hp.

If he would be reduced to 0hp (and/or killed), he returns to druid form instead of being reduced to 0 hp (or dying).

That's a fine house rule, but the rules explicitly say you hit 0 and then revert. There is no language in RAW that says it happens "instead of". That means that as written you do hit 0 and turn to ash.

 

[Maxperson]

Exactly!

Let me put it this way: imagine the wildshaped druid is in the form of an owl with 1 hp. The owl is hit for 20 damage, enough to kill the owl.

Do you think that the owl actually dies, falls to the ground, the druid's soul making its way to the afterlife, then reverts to druid form, his soul (if free and willing) recalled to its druid body as if a resurrection had been cast,

OR

do you think that the owl reverts to druid form instead of dying?

Neither. You die and revert back dead. Nothing in the rules allows the druid to come back to life when he reverts. Read Wild Shape closely and you'll see that.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I recognize that the intent--as confirmed by Jeremy--was that the druid revert to normal form and take the leftover damage, as normal.

But personally (and with full knowledge that it's a house rule), I like the idea that the druid still has to be scared of a few things that can bypass the "wild shape buffer," and I like the idea that disintegrate is one of those things. So I think in my campaigns, if you're reduced to 0 in animal form by the spell, you're dust before you can revert.

 

[Maxperson]

So obviously wildshape can't revert by getting triggered by "or if you die" without also triggering "reduced to 0 HP."

Power Word Kill. It kills without doing damage. If the druid gets hit by that, he dies without going to 0 and you have a reverted corpse

I'm almost positive the intention was for Druids not to simply get auto-killed from the spell, and someone else here claims to have a twitter response saying as much, but the actual rule as written doesn't support it. It's the kind of thing I would expect to see officially clarified at some point (in favor of druids).

Me
[MENTION=4036]Jeremy[/MENTION]ECrawford What happens if a wild shaped druid is reduced to 0 by disintegrate? Does he revert to normal physical form?


Jeremy Crawford &#8207 [MENTION=4036]Jeremy[/MENTION]ECrawford
The intent is that a druid using Wild Shape is disintegrated if the druid, not the beast form, drops to 0 hp.

 

[Chaosmancer]

My personal ruling would follow rule of cool, however, if you wish to read many arguments over this. Check out the massive debate (ongoing it seems) at the WotC forums.

http://community.wizards.com/forum/rules-questions/threads/4250141?page=0