Do you let your clerics have all the spells?

[Darth K'Trava]

I let Clerics have access to all spells on the cleric spell list. Sounds good for the PCs until they see that cleric NPCs have access to the same spells.

Been there, got that.... our party's gotten flame struck a few times from enemy clerics.... and at least one time, were set up to counterspell our flame strikes. Thusly, I pulled out a sanctified spell or two or something different to throw at them....

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

Maybe I'm an old curmudgeon, but shouldn't clerics be pretty limited to healing and buffing?

As somebody who played a lot of 2nd ed clerics (Although a lot were FR Specility Priests, so up the power), I can tell you Clerics really, really, really, could bring the hurt when they needed to. If not by direct damage (Flame Strike, Blade Barrier), then by turning the Party into Death Dealing Unhitable Machines.

As for More Spells...

1. I have to own the book (I have most of the D&D Books). I have to read through it and NOT banned it. By and large, I allow any WotC Product into the game, but I reserve the right to change/modify/drop it after 3-4 sessions. I give it that long to see how it affects my campaigns and how I adjust to its presence. WotC has a lot more playtesters and developers than I do. I'm willing to guess they have a better idea than I do how particular spells/feats/classes affects things than I do. However, I'm better at guessing how new things will affect my campaign and players. So, I always give it a few sessions before I make up my mind.

2. I have to have a Copy of the Spell/Feat/Etc, as well as its source. Green Ronin usually makes the cut; Fast Forward usually gets bounced. Mongoose is very hit or miss. Then I'll either give it a probationary trial or execute it right there (FFE usually goes here).

In your case. WotC's 'Official' doesn't mean D&D Official. The Forgotten Realms is High Magic to begin with and many of the spells are of a higher power than if they were done for 'Normal' D&D. Many 3.0 Spells need to be refined to fit the 3.5 guidelines.

I'd take a minute and look at what he has printed out. Is there a Source Reference? If not, ban it until he tells you which book each spell came from. Is it in 3 point font? Easily Laid Out? If you can't easily read the spells ban it until otherwise.

 

[an_idol_mind]

Unless the book has the words "Core Rulebook" slapped on its cover, I see it as a big book of optional rules. If players want something new added in, that's fine, but it has to be looked over first. And not five minutes before game!

And honestly, I do think that clerics should be more focused toward buffing/healing. Otherwise they're just wizards who use gods instead of spellbooks.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

And honestly, I do think that clerics should be more focused toward buffing/healing. Otherwise they're just wizards who use gods instead of spellbooks.

More focused, yes. Not completely limited to. Even with those new spells, the wizard will outblast the cleric every day of the tenday. Wizards have more blast spells, and they're more effective.

Clerics get some of those, doesn't mean they turn into divine artillery all of a sudden. They're more of a divine sidearm to the wizards arcane machine gun.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Does anyone have an actual PHB or DMG handy, not just the SRD? I could have sworn that recently I saw official rules for clerics researching new spells, which was similar to the rules for wizards doing so.

Anyway, the rules I use basically require the cleric to pay for learning new spells outside of the PHB, which also have to have DM-approval first:

To gain access to a new spell, the character must spend a day in prayer and meditation, burning incense and other materials worth 100gp/spell level during the process. At the end of the day, the character then makes a class level + Wis Modifier check against a DC of 15 + spell level. A successful roll indicates the character has been granted the spell by their deity and may add it to their spell list. Otherwise, the character has used up one half of the gp value of the materials and may try again later.

If a character performs the above check based on a spell they have found transcribed on a scroll or similar object, they receive a +2 on the roll (provided they are able to read the spell initially.) Having the assistance of someone who already knows the spell also gives a +2 bonus to the check.

 

[hackmastergeneral]

In 3.0, we just houseruled Clerics into spontaneous casters, like Sorcerors. It worked out well, and didn't break the game - clerics are slow to build up devastating spells-per-day numbers anyway, and at low levels it was MUCH more useful.

With 3.5, Cleric spells got a LOT buffer. So, we switched em back.

As far as outside sources, ehhh, it doesn't break the game. Our DM owns EVERY book publiished by WOTC. For 3.0, he used to buy all the AEG and Mongoose stuff, but he quikly realized 1) AEG was REALLY unbalanced and broken (Man-At-Arms PrC? Insanely powerful), 2) noone was using them anyway.

As someone else said, Cleric spells get sucked up by healing and buffing, all those extra spells don't often get used. I play clerics all the time (my favorite class), and if I manage to squeeze a handful of non-core spells out every 10 adventures, its odd times.

 

[mmu1]

In the past, I always dealt with spells from supplements on a case-by case basis, regardless of what class they were for. (On average, I'd say to at least half of the ones my players brought to me. Mind you, like most players, they usually didn't ask me about the balanced, non-controversial stuff from the supplements...)

These days, I'd probably go with the method ForceUser mentions getting from Piratecat. Having a smaller spell list that is set in size is a perfectly fair tradeoff for automatically knowing all the spells on that list. That wasn't an accident, due to the fact they just couldn't come up with enough divine spells, it's how the Cleric and Druid classes were designed.

 

[Voadam]

I let standard divine spell casters choose from the core PH/srd spell list. I let variant ones with limited known spells, such as the UA spontaneous caster clerics, choose from any source I approve.

 

[Glyfair]

As can be seen here, there are many different ways of handling the "knows all spells on their spell list" classes and expansions. In fact, I think that's one of the most important things to address when you are starting the campaign. If you allow non-core material (and few campaigns don't at some level), how that's handled should be addressed from the beginning.

In my campaign, I've decided I don't want to deal with the spell swapping. Instead, I allow those classes to choose one spell from a non-core source to add to their spell list for each caster level they have (with approval, of course). Also, I allow them to automatically add any spells they find in the campaign. Periodically I give them books, scrolls, etc. that open up these rare and often lost spells. I find that it adds some fun options, without the concerns of adding 50 or more spells to a classes spell list.

 

[Piratecat]

I go with the rule that if a cleric wants to add a spell that is not in the PHB he has to permanently give up a PHB spell of the same level. If the cleric wants to cast a spell from the Spell Compendium then he has to give up a spell for it.

This is what both Sagiro and I do. It's proven itself to be very well balanced in our games.