D&D (2024) Expectations for Patch 9?

[mamba]

What is the worst that ca happen with the brawler?

it makes it into the 2024 PHB?

More realistically it stays a similar mess as it is today with too little support in the Fighter class and without a stronger identity than the unprepared buffoon who constantly finds himself in trouble

 

[UngeheuerLich]

it makes it into the 2024 PHB?

More realistically it stays a similar mess as it is today with too little support in the Fighter class and without a stronger identity than the unprepared buffoon who constantly finds himself in trouble

I am really not following you there. It is not as bad as you make it to be. Especially if you play in a non optimized group with characters that actually find themself in trouble some times.
Especially in cities where your weapons are peace bound or generally left at the door.
If you assume everyone to be top armed all the time, classes that rely on less equipment are of course worse.

In one game I played, my very unoptimized halfling monk had a very very good time, as he could go everywhere fully armed, disguised as the poor wanderer where everyone else had to stay out.

 

[WanderingMystic]

So I have a few problems with the the Brawler
1: If I am going for a strength based unarmed character, which I do love, I want unarmored as well which this dose not provide.
2: It's ability seem to be trying to represent several concepts, the unarmed, the improvised but they work against each other instead of synergizing with them.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

So I have a few problems with the the Brawler
1: If I am going for a strength based unarmed character, which I do love, I want unarmored as well which this dose not provide.
2: It's ability seem to be trying to represent several concepts, the unarmed, the improvised but they work against each other instead of synergizing with them.

I do agree with this. That seems to be easily fixable.

 

[Neonchameleon]

So I have a few problems with the the Brawler
1: If I am going for a strength based unarmed character, which I do love, I want unarmored as well which this dose not provide.
2: It's ability seem to be trying to represent several concepts, the unarmed, the improvised but they work against each other instead of synergizing with them.

1 is an easy fix and I and others suggested it on feedback

2 is actually a pretty easy fix - improvised damage is based on unarmed damage but you get a bonus the first time you use a new improvised weapon.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

So I have a few problems with the the Brawler
1: If I am going for a strength based unarmed character, which I do love, I want unarmored as well which this dose not provide.
2: It's ability seem to be trying to represent several concepts, the unarmed, the improvised but they work against each other instead of synergizing with them.

I would prefer for the Monk to be able to choose a Dex or Str build (Want a Str-based Open Hand monk? Fine.), and for the Fighter/Brawler to go away and be replaced by something else. If an armored Fighter wants to hit hard while unarmed, or grapple better, let them take a feat or two that makes those options a reality. They don't need a full subclass. It would be cool if PCs could take a feat that scales Unarmed Combat damage (d6, d8, d10). It wouldn't be broken. It would merely let unarmed-themed PCs use a feat to stay competitive with a weapon wielder.

 

[Clint_L]

I would prefer for the Monk to be able to choose a Dex or Str build (Want a Str-based Open Hand monk? Fine.), and for the Fighter/Brawler to go away and be replaced by something else. If an armored Fighter wants to hit hard while unarmed, or grapple better, let them take a feat or two that makes those options a reality. They don't need a full subclass. It would be cool if PCs could take a feat that scales Unarmed Combat damage (d6, d8, d10). It wouldn't be broken. It would merely let unarmed-themed PCs use a feat to stay competitive with a weapon wielder.

Sure, but within limits. For me, the underlying issue is that there is a whole class that is supposed to be the best at unarmed combat, but which kind of sucks right now. Whatever they do with brawler, I don't think fighters should be the best class for unarmed combat. Having the option to choose feats that make you pretty good at it works, because that is a trade-off, but that feat should never let them do more damage than a monk at the same level, or you'd get a weird situation where monk players would need to take a feat to be competitive at unarmed combat.

I agree that monks should have a strength-based option, especially given that strength is (weirdly) one of their proficient saving throws, rather than wisdom. However...would that then become the go-to option for all monks, given how strong grappling will be in the 2024 rules?

 

[Pauln6]

Weapon Mastery was popular but I have reservations about giving at level 1 to Barbarians, paladins and rogues since none of those classes have any need for new lvl 1 at wills IMO. If it's available as a fighting style then it's up for grabs anyway, including as a feat. Rangers, monks, and fighters should really be the focus for the masteries and multiclassing into fighter has an incentive beyond action surge.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Sure, but within limits. For me, the underlying issue is that there is a whole class that is supposed to be the best at unarmed combat, but which kind of sucks right now. Whatever they do with brawler, I don't think fighters should be the best class for unarmed combat. Having the option to choose feats that make you pretty good at it works, because that is a trade-off, but that feat should never let them do more damage than a monk at the same level, or you'd get a weird situation where monk players would need to take a feat to be competitive at unarmed combat.

I agree that monks should have a strength-based option, especially given that strength is (weirdly) one of their proficient saving throws, rather than wisdom. However...would that then become the go-to option for all monks, given how strong grappling will be in the 2024 rules?

I think that it would be fine because Dex is still such a Super Stat, so there will be a tradeoff.

AC would still be Dex and Wis, because Dex always applies to AC, and there is no reason to replace Wis with Strength.

They would probably let you choose between Str and Dex for initiating a grapple.

 

[Remathilis]

Weapon Mastery was popular but I have reservations about giving at level 1 to Barbarians, paladins and rogues since none of those classes have any need for new lvl 1 at wills IMO. If it's available as a fighting style then it's up for grabs anyway, including as a feat. Rangers, monks, and fighters should really be the focus for the masteries and multiclassing into fighter has an incentive beyond action surge.

The problem i see is they opted to fix Two Weapon Fighting via Nick, and not giving that to rogues really messes up the action economy again.