Fantasy Arms Race, Round Two
s/LaSH
First Post
Here's what I see the Jongans doing:
After developing certain technologies, they land on the coast north of Cresia and march south, burning the land behind them. They penetrate the unguarded borders and make a line for the central temple town. Meanwhile, their ships set up a diversion on the coast, keeping the Cresians divided.
They use special tactics as follows (in addition to other good ideas, above):
Always burn the terrain behind you. It provides dead ground to fall back onto if you're attacked, and at this point you're not looking to conquer, you're looking to kill.
Employ ranged weapons. They have superior engineering abilities, as demonstrated by wooden ship hulls and bronze weapons, so they construct siege machines. Using tar or naphtha or petroleum or something, they create fire-slingers that can drop a firebomb on an enemy druid at two hundred feet. Their troops are trained to use javelins, and small companies of crack archers hang behind the battle line to saturate the advance of the Cresians. All arrows are oil-soaked.
This enables the Jongans to eradicate enemy advantage on occupied ground. If there aren't any plants, then there aren't any entangle spells. In addition, flaming oil floats... they can protect their ships from nautical assault, and bombard the shore from a safe distance.
If this tactic is too aggressive, the Jongans have a secondary scheme: viking raids. At unpredicable intervals, small groups land, use their concentrated numbers and superior technology to raze a village, then retreat to Jonga. If you keep down the enemy's population while sustaining only minimal casualties yourself, you will win in the long run.
More aggressive raids involve sailing up-river under cover of night, possibly using magical camouflage during the day to reach deeper territory. This would only work once, but if they can penetrate and raze the central town (which I'm sure they know about from prisoners), they score a long-term advantage.
Each raider ship thus has a complement of shift-sleeping mages and bards, with two-thirds of them ready to throw out fans of fire, reverse-engineered summons, illusions or charms at any one time. The ships are heavy with extra men, each of them with bows and swords, and each ship carries at least one firethrower.
Bear in mind that, back then, oil could be easily found on the surface. Not so much these days, when anything so easily found has been drilled up and sold to someone else. Thus I believe oil to become of increasing importance in the Jongan arsenal.
I don't know if they have the time to develop Greek Fire, which is more complex, but still Bronze or Iron-age technology, but 'put the oil in a pot, light it, throw it' isn't too difficult for primitive civilisations.
After developing certain technologies, they land on the coast north of Cresia and march south, burning the land behind them. They penetrate the unguarded borders and make a line for the central temple town. Meanwhile, their ships set up a diversion on the coast, keeping the Cresians divided.
They use special tactics as follows (in addition to other good ideas, above):
Always burn the terrain behind you. It provides dead ground to fall back onto if you're attacked, and at this point you're not looking to conquer, you're looking to kill.
Employ ranged weapons. They have superior engineering abilities, as demonstrated by wooden ship hulls and bronze weapons, so they construct siege machines. Using tar or naphtha or petroleum or something, they create fire-slingers that can drop a firebomb on an enemy druid at two hundred feet. Their troops are trained to use javelins, and small companies of crack archers hang behind the battle line to saturate the advance of the Cresians. All arrows are oil-soaked.
This enables the Jongans to eradicate enemy advantage on occupied ground. If there aren't any plants, then there aren't any entangle spells. In addition, flaming oil floats... they can protect their ships from nautical assault, and bombard the shore from a safe distance.
If this tactic is too aggressive, the Jongans have a secondary scheme: viking raids. At unpredicable intervals, small groups land, use their concentrated numbers and superior technology to raze a village, then retreat to Jonga. If you keep down the enemy's population while sustaining only minimal casualties yourself, you will win in the long run.
More aggressive raids involve sailing up-river under cover of night, possibly using magical camouflage during the day to reach deeper territory. This would only work once, but if they can penetrate and raze the central town (which I'm sure they know about from prisoners), they score a long-term advantage.
Each raider ship thus has a complement of shift-sleeping mages and bards, with two-thirds of them ready to throw out fans of fire, reverse-engineered summons, illusions or charms at any one time. The ships are heavy with extra men, each of them with bows and swords, and each ship carries at least one firethrower.
Bear in mind that, back then, oil could be easily found on the surface. Not so much these days, when anything so easily found has been drilled up and sold to someone else. Thus I believe oil to become of increasing importance in the Jongan arsenal.
I don't know if they have the time to develop Greek Fire, which is more complex, but still Bronze or Iron-age technology, but 'put the oil in a pot, light it, throw it' isn't too difficult for primitive civilisations.
Dr. Strangemonkey
First Post
Greek fire is really hard to make, and even getting petroleum oil from the surface to burn right is pretty tricky. Siege engines take a long long long time to be developed.
But I certainly agree that the Jongans are going to burn everything and get better at ranged weapons.
On the other hand if the Cressians develop spells that alter the wind, then things are going to look pretty grim for the Jongans.
Very much looking forward to the next plot development.
But I certainly agree that the Jongans are going to burn everything and get better at ranged weapons.
On the other hand if the Cressians develop spells that alter the wind, then things are going to look pretty grim for the Jongans.
Very much looking forward to the next plot development.
RangerWickett
Legend
Sorry for not replying for a while. I had one game (to play in) Thursday, and another (to run) Friday, plus Friday and Sunday are both birthdays of two of my close friends, so it's a bit hard to make the time necessary. I won't be able to write up a full story this time, just an overview.
The Jonga retreat to their homeland and decide it would be foolish to attack again soon. They've lost a lot of warriors, and they know at least that the Cresians are not skilled enough at seafaring to follow them back home. It will be two years before the Jonga return. This gives both sides a fair amount of time to prepare and set up defenses, plus it allows a few more people to reach fighting age.
A brilliant Jonga warleader decides that their next attack will use ships as a diversion along the south coast of the Cresians, while the primary attacking army will come in from a more northerly angle, traveling fully on land. Unfortunately, they never got far enough into the heartland to learn the location of the main temple, so they don't know what to aim for. Instead, they just burn both farmland and brush as they come, assuming that this invasion will just be to clear out the locals. They won't come back for a while thereafter, and when they do the land will be extra fertile from the ashes.
The Cresians' rosebush-lined roadways do their job to disrupt Jonga formations. Roadways are now built to encircle villages, and in open country they wind back and forth and are about 10 ft wide, with narrow four-foot wide straight paths that avoid the winding. Cresians can easily travel through narrow gaps in the bushes, but invaders have to move slowly in single file though the narrow gaps, or travel through entangling thorny brush, or go slowly on the switchbacks, which gives the Cresians more time to prepare their defenses. Cresian towns now have high brick walls around their villages, behind from which they can hurl spears down at attackers.
The Cresians very rarely go out to meet their opponents now, since they prefer to use cultivated terrain to fight oncoming foes. This also frees them to use the wildmen as warriors, since heretofore they have not been attacked during a full moon. Over the two years, however, a few beastmen learn to force their transformations, which comes as a surprise to the Jonga. The Jonga knew that the wolfmen could only change during the full moon (a trait they discovered when a group of their travelers were attacked, and later took refuge among the descendants of the hillfolk, far to the north). However, the Jonga mages are surprisingly able to fend them off; spells and potions designed to burn fields to kill the land can also set fire to the rosepaths, creating large walls of fire that the beastmen are wary to cross. Any forces that travel off the roads are easily picked off by hunting dogmen, but those that stay to the roads are able to use the Cresians' terrain against them.
After a little while, the Cresians start sending out wolfmen with beast summoners, so that summoned creatures can attack as a surprise and try to kill spellcasters, which gives the wolfmen a chance to get in close and fight well. The surviving Jonga learn that only fire-forged weapons can harm the wolfmen, and future Jonga will start making weapons permanently enchanted with fire.
The most powerful priestess of the Cresians was blessed with a divine wind spell to drive away ships coming for the coast with a powerful howl, and she uses it to stop the advance of the ships, though of course that is not the primary front of attack. A few villages are burned to the north, and the Jonga accomplish the most important goal of their attack--they capture several priests and charm them, eventually convincing them to share the secrets of summoning magic.
However, by not killing all of the attacking sailors, the Cresians are able to recover some Jonga sea ships, and through more direct intimidation tactics (rather than Jonga charm spells), the Cresians learn enough to plan a counter-attack.
So the Cresians prepare an assault on the isle of the Jonga, while the Jonga start to learn to use Cresian magic against them.
The Jonga retreat to their homeland and decide it would be foolish to attack again soon. They've lost a lot of warriors, and they know at least that the Cresians are not skilled enough at seafaring to follow them back home. It will be two years before the Jonga return. This gives both sides a fair amount of time to prepare and set up defenses, plus it allows a few more people to reach fighting age.
A brilliant Jonga warleader decides that their next attack will use ships as a diversion along the south coast of the Cresians, while the primary attacking army will come in from a more northerly angle, traveling fully on land. Unfortunately, they never got far enough into the heartland to learn the location of the main temple, so they don't know what to aim for. Instead, they just burn both farmland and brush as they come, assuming that this invasion will just be to clear out the locals. They won't come back for a while thereafter, and when they do the land will be extra fertile from the ashes.
The Cresians' rosebush-lined roadways do their job to disrupt Jonga formations. Roadways are now built to encircle villages, and in open country they wind back and forth and are about 10 ft wide, with narrow four-foot wide straight paths that avoid the winding. Cresians can easily travel through narrow gaps in the bushes, but invaders have to move slowly in single file though the narrow gaps, or travel through entangling thorny brush, or go slowly on the switchbacks, which gives the Cresians more time to prepare their defenses. Cresian towns now have high brick walls around their villages, behind from which they can hurl spears down at attackers.
The Cresians very rarely go out to meet their opponents now, since they prefer to use cultivated terrain to fight oncoming foes. This also frees them to use the wildmen as warriors, since heretofore they have not been attacked during a full moon. Over the two years, however, a few beastmen learn to force their transformations, which comes as a surprise to the Jonga. The Jonga knew that the wolfmen could only change during the full moon (a trait they discovered when a group of their travelers were attacked, and later took refuge among the descendants of the hillfolk, far to the north). However, the Jonga mages are surprisingly able to fend them off; spells and potions designed to burn fields to kill the land can also set fire to the rosepaths, creating large walls of fire that the beastmen are wary to cross. Any forces that travel off the roads are easily picked off by hunting dogmen, but those that stay to the roads are able to use the Cresians' terrain against them.
After a little while, the Cresians start sending out wolfmen with beast summoners, so that summoned creatures can attack as a surprise and try to kill spellcasters, which gives the wolfmen a chance to get in close and fight well. The surviving Jonga learn that only fire-forged weapons can harm the wolfmen, and future Jonga will start making weapons permanently enchanted with fire.
The most powerful priestess of the Cresians was blessed with a divine wind spell to drive away ships coming for the coast with a powerful howl, and she uses it to stop the advance of the ships, though of course that is not the primary front of attack. A few villages are burned to the north, and the Jonga accomplish the most important goal of their attack--they capture several priests and charm them, eventually convincing them to share the secrets of summoning magic.
However, by not killing all of the attacking sailors, the Cresians are able to recover some Jonga sea ships, and through more direct intimidation tactics (rather than Jonga charm spells), the Cresians learn enough to plan a counter-attack.
So the Cresians prepare an assault on the isle of the Jonga, while the Jonga start to learn to use Cresian magic against them.
ajanders
Explorer
The Cresians attack!
Hoo ha!
On the Cresian side, I'm inclined to think the attacks might come earlier than two years and not as a technologically based land assault.
The Cresians have a reasonable ability to speak with animals, if I remember correctly. Historically they have used that to speak with their beasts of the field and the small birds of the air. When the first Cresian priest meets the first albatross, however, they get a whole new kind of open-ocean reconnaissance. Several large fish and a few cure light wounds spells later, families of albatross have been recruited into service.
The albatross have never been helpful as coast watchers: there's just too much ocean and not enough albatrosses. But for deep penetration reconnaissance, they're your birds.
A brief investigation of the scavenger fish in the ocean provides a long string of stories about big moving islands that dropped the most amazing food, giving the albascouts a bearing to backtrack. Two months of hard work later, an albatross comes back with a story he heard from a tern who had it from a gull about a big nest of men on the other side of the ocean: for three fish, he'll show you the way.
Meanwhile, Cresian plant priests have been furiously trying to regrow their rose-walls: rose-bushes taking a long time to bloom, they eke them out with plants less sacred, but equally obnoxious, nettles, poison ivy, cockleburr, and the like. In their search for plants, they might very well come across exotic plant monsters like the snappersaw, retch plant, and tri-frond flower. Transplanting these is obnoxious, even when you can talk to them, but for some of the most critical areas where they can be constantly monitored by plant priests, they can provide more than just a passive obstacle for invaders.
A third group of priests petitions the FieldFather to grant them spells to make the fields more fertile and the plants grow more swiftly. If this happens, a whole new world suddenly appears in Cresia.
On a mundane level, the Cresians are trying to rebuild their burnt land, build ships, and learn how to sail them: they're staying pretty busy.
The Jongans are in just the reverse state: their mundane tactics have worked very well indeed, and little development will be occurring there. One or two clever chaps who are tired of getting hit with spears, however, start seriously experimenting with these bow and arrow toys: an arrow may not do as much damage as a spear, but it can be fired from farther away, which means less slogging through those darn rose bushes. They don't get terribly far with it, because they work out that you'd need an organized formation of these things to do signficant damage, and they know how well formations work on the Cresians. Nonetheless, the idea percolates around the Jongan army before finally getting taken up by the navy, who don't have to worry about rosebushes and entangle spells on their vegetation-free decks. Future naval operations will have a sizable archery component, cutting off the druids ability to reshape the hull.
But the wizards are very busy indeed.
Summoning spells turn out to be cute, but the real power comes when someone crosses the Jongan power over minds with the Cresian ability to communicate with plants and animals. This is potent magic, and very few among the Jongans can manage it, but a lot of Jongan wizards are looking forward to getting a pet Cresian beastman on their side.
The next war may turn out to be a lot more subtle and magical, particularly if the FieldFather grants the Cresians spells to help plants grow and most particularly to bring rain.
I'll wait to hear what the FieldFather (aka Rangerwickett) has to say about that before continuing on...no hurry on my account.
Hoo ha!
On the Cresian side, I'm inclined to think the attacks might come earlier than two years and not as a technologically based land assault.
The Cresians have a reasonable ability to speak with animals, if I remember correctly. Historically they have used that to speak with their beasts of the field and the small birds of the air. When the first Cresian priest meets the first albatross, however, they get a whole new kind of open-ocean reconnaissance. Several large fish and a few cure light wounds spells later, families of albatross have been recruited into service.
The albatross have never been helpful as coast watchers: there's just too much ocean and not enough albatrosses. But for deep penetration reconnaissance, they're your birds.
A brief investigation of the scavenger fish in the ocean provides a long string of stories about big moving islands that dropped the most amazing food, giving the albascouts a bearing to backtrack. Two months of hard work later, an albatross comes back with a story he heard from a tern who had it from a gull about a big nest of men on the other side of the ocean: for three fish, he'll show you the way.
Meanwhile, Cresian plant priests have been furiously trying to regrow their rose-walls: rose-bushes taking a long time to bloom, they eke them out with plants less sacred, but equally obnoxious, nettles, poison ivy, cockleburr, and the like. In their search for plants, they might very well come across exotic plant monsters like the snappersaw, retch plant, and tri-frond flower. Transplanting these is obnoxious, even when you can talk to them, but for some of the most critical areas where they can be constantly monitored by plant priests, they can provide more than just a passive obstacle for invaders.
A third group of priests petitions the FieldFather to grant them spells to make the fields more fertile and the plants grow more swiftly. If this happens, a whole new world suddenly appears in Cresia.
On a mundane level, the Cresians are trying to rebuild their burnt land, build ships, and learn how to sail them: they're staying pretty busy.
The Jongans are in just the reverse state: their mundane tactics have worked very well indeed, and little development will be occurring there. One or two clever chaps who are tired of getting hit with spears, however, start seriously experimenting with these bow and arrow toys: an arrow may not do as much damage as a spear, but it can be fired from farther away, which means less slogging through those darn rose bushes. They don't get terribly far with it, because they work out that you'd need an organized formation of these things to do signficant damage, and they know how well formations work on the Cresians. Nonetheless, the idea percolates around the Jongan army before finally getting taken up by the navy, who don't have to worry about rosebushes and entangle spells on their vegetation-free decks. Future naval operations will have a sizable archery component, cutting off the druids ability to reshape the hull.
But the wizards are very busy indeed.
Summoning spells turn out to be cute, but the real power comes when someone crosses the Jongan power over minds with the Cresian ability to communicate with plants and animals. This is potent magic, and very few among the Jongans can manage it, but a lot of Jongan wizards are looking forward to getting a pet Cresian beastman on their side.
The next war may turn out to be a lot more subtle and magical, particularly if the FieldFather grants the Cresians spells to help plants grow and most particularly to bring rain.
I'll wait to hear what the FieldFather (aka Rangerwickett) has to say about that before continuing on...no hurry on my account.
s/LaSH
First Post
Let the pre-war brainstorming continue...
If I were a Cresian...
I'd suspect that the Jongan homeland would be full of rough, tough warrior types, all with big swords, possibly fortified. Having interrogated the soldiers about Jongan fortifications and plant growth, I'd consider a few interesting tactics.
First, the tow-ship. With animal control, you can harness whales or seals to pull your ships even without wind, giving Cresian naval vessels a great advantage at certain times (and with their abilities, I'm sure the Cresians would pick the calmest time of year to launch any attack). Sails and oars supplement this ability, but to hook up a whale and sail off into the sunset... the Jongans never see that one coming.
Second, they try to influence the Jongans to gnaw themselves to death (metaphorically speaking). On an island, their resources are naturally limited, so they resolve to destroy all the wood and crops on Jonga. It's really a simple proposition: launch quick strikes on the island during calm periods, when the tow-ships are most effective. Each strike lands at night, hides the ship in a remote area, then when Jongans pass nearby they use their own plants against them and run like heck.
Eventually, they reason, the Jongans will start burning down their own forests just to avoid being trashed by sneaky Cresian raiders. If they don't, then the Cresians will slowly distort and destroy the availability of straight wood necessary for shipbuilding. When Jongan trees are no more, of course, is when the Cresians launch a full-scale assault on the Jongan fleet in harbour, shaping every hull into useless shapes, and retreat, now with naval superiority.
With command of the seas, the Cresians can happily raid the Jongans for a few years until they surrender.
Now, the wood raiders is a risky proposition, and it relies on being able to quickly eradicate the Jongan wood supply. If their island is too big, however, Cresians are more at home in the wilderness than the industrious Jongans, so they're capable of hiding out and sending the local animals on raids on Jongan cities. If the Jongans are well-fortified, well, then there's no quick solution... the Cresians would do better to just build a fleet and start training whales.
Third... After a little while, and a few unfortunate accidents during training, it becomes apparent that whales are actually very effective combatants. A small corps of attack whales is trained to seek out and crush Jongan ships; to protect their own vessels from these free agents, the Cresians adopt a special hull design with underwater ornamentation. (And whales aren't too tough to control... if they put up a fuss, sharks are much easier to control in large numbers, and that gets the whales right in line.)
Given time, the Cresians would discover the true bounty of the sea, and with their magical abilities, they're quite capable of setting up aquatic farms with sharks or dolphins herding fish or whales. Especially keen on shallow waters where nets are useful, they also promote kelp growth in an effort to create an aquatic version of their rose barriers... and kelp doesn't burn so well.
However, these plans and possibilities are just plans so far.
The Jongans, meanwhile, are experimenting with summoning magics. They quickly discover the disadvantage of summons: a short duration. This means that summons are best employed in the attack; if employed in defence, the enemy need simply withdraw and the summon will be wasted. A new battle drill is developed, wherein the arcane caster and his strike group advance to the front of battle, summon monsters into the heart of the enemy formation, and withdraw. Not only are the enemy disrupted, but the Jongan troops are fortified by the song of the caster during the advance and retreat. The theory is that the enemy will be totally outclassed at that point, and so the summon striker is tasked with breaking enemy strongpoints and fortresses.
A more disturbing fact is this: the official summoning lists (those creatures easiest to summon by non-Druid casters) are, at lower levels, largely fiends. All summons have the ability to communicate, albeit briefly (Celestial and Fiendish templates give INT of at least 3). And here's the order of sentients: Level 2: Formian worker/Lemure, Level 3: Triton/Azer/Salamander/Dretch. Now, the tritons could make an interesting ally in that they're sea-based and the Jongans will need to fight by sea in future. However, Azers, as elemental smiths, are a much more useful ally, and the rest of them are just evil. I see the Jongans allying themselves with Dark Forces in the future... and the Dark Forces jumping at the chance to gain a foothold on this world. They'll eagerly help the Jongans, maybe even sending some mighty champions to help them (of course, that completely destroys the historic order, as any fiendish faction capable of sending its members across the planes has to have access to high-level spells like Plane Shift which neither side of this was are likely to develop for centuries or millenia).
And, anticipating that their new weapon is fairly useless on the defensive, they begin to plan for yet another invasion...
...but it's only a plan so far.
If I were a Cresian...
I'd suspect that the Jongan homeland would be full of rough, tough warrior types, all with big swords, possibly fortified. Having interrogated the soldiers about Jongan fortifications and plant growth, I'd consider a few interesting tactics.
First, the tow-ship. With animal control, you can harness whales or seals to pull your ships even without wind, giving Cresian naval vessels a great advantage at certain times (and with their abilities, I'm sure the Cresians would pick the calmest time of year to launch any attack). Sails and oars supplement this ability, but to hook up a whale and sail off into the sunset... the Jongans never see that one coming.
Second, they try to influence the Jongans to gnaw themselves to death (metaphorically speaking). On an island, their resources are naturally limited, so they resolve to destroy all the wood and crops on Jonga. It's really a simple proposition: launch quick strikes on the island during calm periods, when the tow-ships are most effective. Each strike lands at night, hides the ship in a remote area, then when Jongans pass nearby they use their own plants against them and run like heck.
Eventually, they reason, the Jongans will start burning down their own forests just to avoid being trashed by sneaky Cresian raiders. If they don't, then the Cresians will slowly distort and destroy the availability of straight wood necessary for shipbuilding. When Jongan trees are no more, of course, is when the Cresians launch a full-scale assault on the Jongan fleet in harbour, shaping every hull into useless shapes, and retreat, now with naval superiority.
With command of the seas, the Cresians can happily raid the Jongans for a few years until they surrender.
Now, the wood raiders is a risky proposition, and it relies on being able to quickly eradicate the Jongan wood supply. If their island is too big, however, Cresians are more at home in the wilderness than the industrious Jongans, so they're capable of hiding out and sending the local animals on raids on Jongan cities. If the Jongans are well-fortified, well, then there's no quick solution... the Cresians would do better to just build a fleet and start training whales.
Third... After a little while, and a few unfortunate accidents during training, it becomes apparent that whales are actually very effective combatants. A small corps of attack whales is trained to seek out and crush Jongan ships; to protect their own vessels from these free agents, the Cresians adopt a special hull design with underwater ornamentation. (And whales aren't too tough to control... if they put up a fuss, sharks are much easier to control in large numbers, and that gets the whales right in line.)
Given time, the Cresians would discover the true bounty of the sea, and with their magical abilities, they're quite capable of setting up aquatic farms with sharks or dolphins herding fish or whales. Especially keen on shallow waters where nets are useful, they also promote kelp growth in an effort to create an aquatic version of their rose barriers... and kelp doesn't burn so well.
However, these plans and possibilities are just plans so far.
The Jongans, meanwhile, are experimenting with summoning magics. They quickly discover the disadvantage of summons: a short duration. This means that summons are best employed in the attack; if employed in defence, the enemy need simply withdraw and the summon will be wasted. A new battle drill is developed, wherein the arcane caster and his strike group advance to the front of battle, summon monsters into the heart of the enemy formation, and withdraw. Not only are the enemy disrupted, but the Jongan troops are fortified by the song of the caster during the advance and retreat. The theory is that the enemy will be totally outclassed at that point, and so the summon striker is tasked with breaking enemy strongpoints and fortresses.
A more disturbing fact is this: the official summoning lists (those creatures easiest to summon by non-Druid casters) are, at lower levels, largely fiends. All summons have the ability to communicate, albeit briefly (Celestial and Fiendish templates give INT of at least 3). And here's the order of sentients: Level 2: Formian worker/Lemure, Level 3: Triton/Azer/Salamander/Dretch. Now, the tritons could make an interesting ally in that they're sea-based and the Jongans will need to fight by sea in future. However, Azers, as elemental smiths, are a much more useful ally, and the rest of them are just evil. I see the Jongans allying themselves with Dark Forces in the future... and the Dark Forces jumping at the chance to gain a foothold on this world. They'll eagerly help the Jongans, maybe even sending some mighty champions to help them (of course, that completely destroys the historic order, as any fiendish faction capable of sending its members across the planes has to have access to high-level spells like Plane Shift which neither side of this was are likely to develop for centuries or millenia).
And, anticipating that their new weapon is fairly useless on the defensive, they begin to plan for yet another invasion...
...but it's only a plan so far.
Buttercup
Princess of Florin
I haven't contributed to this interesting game so far, but I've got a few ideas to throw in. I agree with S/lash that the Cressians will put their plant & animal communication skills to work on sea life.
And I think they'll quickly discover that the sea is a rich source of all kinds of resources. Many kinds of seaweed are edible, as are many kinds of sea life. So the cressians will quickly have a more varied diet. This makes for healthier, more long lived people, and a higher birth rate. Obviously the effects of this last point won't come to fruition for a good 15-20 years, but the health benefits would be apparent in just a few months.
Another thing the Cressians will find in the sea is a selection of plant & animal life that is poisonous. I can imagine them learning to control various jellyfish and corals. If they can cause corals to grow around their coastline, the Jongan ships would get their hulls breached, or run aground before they could get close to the beach. And if the Cressians farmed colonies of man-of-war and lion's mane jellyfish in the shallows between the coral beds and the beach, the odds of healthy and whole Jongians traversing this gauntlet would be slim to none. (Have you ever seen what a Portugese man-of-war can do to someone? :shudder
These creatures have short generations, so two years is plenty of time to grow a substantial population, especially if you can hurry it alont with your magic.
And then you have puffer fish. How about spears and arrows dipped in puffer fish extract?
If I were the Cressians, I would be thinking that my survival and the Jongians survival were mutually exclusive, and I would be determined not to be on the short end of the deal. Jongians use fire, eh? Well then, we'll use botanical and animal based poisons.
Finally, if the Cressians do manage to sneak into Jongian forests, I would think they would seed all the land they could with noxious plants such as poison ivy, and maybe they would try to blight Jongian food crops. How about a magical version of the Irish potato famine?
And I think they'll quickly discover that the sea is a rich source of all kinds of resources. Many kinds of seaweed are edible, as are many kinds of sea life. So the cressians will quickly have a more varied diet. This makes for healthier, more long lived people, and a higher birth rate. Obviously the effects of this last point won't come to fruition for a good 15-20 years, but the health benefits would be apparent in just a few months.
Another thing the Cressians will find in the sea is a selection of plant & animal life that is poisonous. I can imagine them learning to control various jellyfish and corals. If they can cause corals to grow around their coastline, the Jongan ships would get their hulls breached, or run aground before they could get close to the beach. And if the Cressians farmed colonies of man-of-war and lion's mane jellyfish in the shallows between the coral beds and the beach, the odds of healthy and whole Jongians traversing this gauntlet would be slim to none. (Have you ever seen what a Portugese man-of-war can do to someone? :shudder
These creatures have short generations, so two years is plenty of time to grow a substantial population, especially if you can hurry it alont with your magic.And then you have puffer fish. How about spears and arrows dipped in puffer fish extract?
If I were the Cressians, I would be thinking that my survival and the Jongians survival were mutually exclusive, and I would be determined not to be on the short end of the deal. Jongians use fire, eh? Well then, we'll use botanical and animal based poisons.
Finally, if the Cressians do manage to sneak into Jongian forests, I would think they would seed all the land they could with noxious plants such as poison ivy, and maybe they would try to blight Jongian food crops. How about a magical version of the Irish potato famine?
The Cresian Navy
Having captured Jongan ships to learn from gives the Cresians a huge advantqge. With their magical abilities to warp and shape wood, they can build ships many orders of magnitude faster than the Jongans can. What's more, the ships can be bigger. Whole trees can be shaped to create masts hundreds of feet high, and formed of solid wood, making them much stronger. Bigger masts mean more sails, which means more speed. Solid wood means more tactile strength, which means they can perform maneuvers that would snap Jongan ships in half.
Add to that the ability to strike sail and hook up a harnessed pod of whales once the enemy is in sight, and you have a phenomenally maneuverable ship that can fight regardless of wind conditions. And you would need almost no crew to run the rigging once the whales were hooked up, leaving the ENTIRE CREW free to fight/board/whatever. They could use their albatross scouts to pinpoint the location of enemy ships, and attack them when they are becalmed, or from upwind, and they'd have no chance. In a very short amount of time, the Cresian navy would be an unstoppable juggernaut.
The wooden ships would be vulnerable to the Jongan fire-casters, and there would be a few catastrophic losses where many ships were burned. Even then, the crew dives overboard, is rescued by their whale and dolphin companions, an albatross is sent home with a report, and with a month of Plant Growth and Warp Wood spells, the ships are replaced. Crews of low-level priestesses are trained as fire-brigades, preparing as many Create Water spells as they can, to minimize the effect of fire damage aboard ships in the future.
Going in the opposite direction of the whale-drawn galleon, they might also create smaller sea vessels; chariots drawn by a team of dolphins. These would be small, lightweight hulls, crewed by three Cresians; a priestess/pilot, a shield-bearer, to protect the crew from arrows and javelins, and a beastman marine. Fleets of these tiny ships would swarm enemy vessels, and the marines throw up grappling hooks, force their transformation, and overrun the enemy vessel. If the cresians are using sharks, they will have a hard time getting the dolphins' cooperation, so this tactic, while cool, may not ever happen.
Whether whale-galleons or dolphin-chariots, the cresians set up an organized coast guard, in addidion to any offensive maneuvers. Between that and their albatross-scouts, it's unlikely the Jonga will be able to catch them unprepared again.
-edit: Add Buttercup's pufferfish-poison-tipped-spears to the idea of the chariot-pulled boarding parties. Poison-based attacks = good idea, and nasty, too...
Having captured Jongan ships to learn from gives the Cresians a huge advantqge. With their magical abilities to warp and shape wood, they can build ships many orders of magnitude faster than the Jongans can. What's more, the ships can be bigger. Whole trees can be shaped to create masts hundreds of feet high, and formed of solid wood, making them much stronger. Bigger masts mean more sails, which means more speed. Solid wood means more tactile strength, which means they can perform maneuvers that would snap Jongan ships in half.
Add to that the ability to strike sail and hook up a harnessed pod of whales once the enemy is in sight, and you have a phenomenally maneuverable ship that can fight regardless of wind conditions. And you would need almost no crew to run the rigging once the whales were hooked up, leaving the ENTIRE CREW free to fight/board/whatever. They could use their albatross scouts to pinpoint the location of enemy ships, and attack them when they are becalmed, or from upwind, and they'd have no chance. In a very short amount of time, the Cresian navy would be an unstoppable juggernaut.
The wooden ships would be vulnerable to the Jongan fire-casters, and there would be a few catastrophic losses where many ships were burned. Even then, the crew dives overboard, is rescued by their whale and dolphin companions, an albatross is sent home with a report, and with a month of Plant Growth and Warp Wood spells, the ships are replaced. Crews of low-level priestesses are trained as fire-brigades, preparing as many Create Water spells as they can, to minimize the effect of fire damage aboard ships in the future.
Going in the opposite direction of the whale-drawn galleon, they might also create smaller sea vessels; chariots drawn by a team of dolphins. These would be small, lightweight hulls, crewed by three Cresians; a priestess/pilot, a shield-bearer, to protect the crew from arrows and javelins, and a beastman marine. Fleets of these tiny ships would swarm enemy vessels, and the marines throw up grappling hooks, force their transformation, and overrun the enemy vessel. If the cresians are using sharks, they will have a hard time getting the dolphins' cooperation, so this tactic, while cool, may not ever happen.
Whether whale-galleons or dolphin-chariots, the cresians set up an organized coast guard, in addidion to any offensive maneuvers. Between that and their albatross-scouts, it's unlikely the Jonga will be able to catch them unprepared again.
-edit: Add Buttercup's pufferfish-poison-tipped-spears to the idea of the chariot-pulled boarding parties. Poison-based attacks = good idea, and nasty, too...
Last edited:
RangerWickett
Legend
A few clarifications:
Given the number of trees in your average forest, and the fact that even mid- to high-level druids can only warp wood a couple times a day, it's unfeasible that they'd be able to get rid of an entire forest of lumber on the Jonga island.
You can charm creatures to defend you perhaps, but expecting them to go charging into a full township of foes is too much. Wild animals cannot be used as strike teams (at least not until we get dominate animal spells), so if you want them, you need to fight with them.
No sailing ships yet. The actual distance between the two countries is probably something like 30 miles, so sails aren't really necessary either.
I don't know how fast it takes to invent things, but developing puffer-fish venom (or any type of sea venom) might be a bit much for common use. I could imagine maybe a single person realizing what this poison could do and developing individual tactics for poison attacks, and maybe creating a group of skilled sneak-killers (assassins, but not for hire). But I don't think you'd be able to get enough poison for more than a few people at once.
I'm liking the mental image of a narrow skiff of a boat, being pulled at high speed by dolphins, with warriors wielding harpoons controlling the sea-chariot. Kinda like a bronze-age fantasy jet ski. Also, whale-drawn ships could work pretty well, but not for close quarters maneuvering. The Cresian ability to shape wood means they can just create boats whole cloth, rather than have to build them (since they don't have the proficiency to make boards of wood waterproof), so they can actually develop naval superiority if you give them a year or two.
The Cresians don't understand warfare enough to realize they should attack Cresian ship-building areas, so instead they just send a few ships to find the exact way to the island and scout it out, then leave, since they don't have overwhelming numbers. They don't understand 'viking tactics,' as one of you put it. Instead, there are a few naval battles where the more experienced Jonga typically have the upper hand, especially when their mages use sonic attacks to stun the animals pulling Cresian ships.
The Jonga, however, do. They don't want to relent on their attacks, so every month or so, the Jonga send one or two ships to strike coast, burn a village, and retreat. This leads to the Cresians abandoning their diverse array of coastal villages, instead building up the two or three that haven't been burned down (much) as places of refuge for large numbers of people. They keep a coastal defense fleet, and try to figure out ways to protect their sea beasts of burden.
The Cresian tradition of shapeshifting is expanded upon, now that the Cresians are having a greater interaction with the ocean. So we eventually end up with an order of shapeshifting seagoers, sorta . . . scurvy sea dogs. (sorry)
The Jonga realize they have to fortify their own defenses, so they clearcut any woods on the coast and bring it inland. For safety's sake they have to build ships inland now, but it makes their homeland more secure. They also realize that Cresians aren't apparently able to warp stone or metal, so they build stone look-out posts along the shore and along major roads. Finally, their mages develop multiple ways of disrupting, scaring, or killing the sea beasts that draw Cresian fleets.
Given the number of trees in your average forest, and the fact that even mid- to high-level druids can only warp wood a couple times a day, it's unfeasible that they'd be able to get rid of an entire forest of lumber on the Jonga island.
You can charm creatures to defend you perhaps, but expecting them to go charging into a full township of foes is too much. Wild animals cannot be used as strike teams (at least not until we get dominate animal spells), so if you want them, you need to fight with them.
No sailing ships yet. The actual distance between the two countries is probably something like 30 miles, so sails aren't really necessary either.
I don't know how fast it takes to invent things, but developing puffer-fish venom (or any type of sea venom) might be a bit much for common use. I could imagine maybe a single person realizing what this poison could do and developing individual tactics for poison attacks, and maybe creating a group of skilled sneak-killers (assassins, but not for hire). But I don't think you'd be able to get enough poison for more than a few people at once.
I'm liking the mental image of a narrow skiff of a boat, being pulled at high speed by dolphins, with warriors wielding harpoons controlling the sea-chariot. Kinda like a bronze-age fantasy jet ski. Also, whale-drawn ships could work pretty well, but not for close quarters maneuvering. The Cresian ability to shape wood means they can just create boats whole cloth, rather than have to build them (since they don't have the proficiency to make boards of wood waterproof), so they can actually develop naval superiority if you give them a year or two.
The Cresians don't understand warfare enough to realize they should attack Cresian ship-building areas, so instead they just send a few ships to find the exact way to the island and scout it out, then leave, since they don't have overwhelming numbers. They don't understand 'viking tactics,' as one of you put it. Instead, there are a few naval battles where the more experienced Jonga typically have the upper hand, especially when their mages use sonic attacks to stun the animals pulling Cresian ships.
The Jonga, however, do. They don't want to relent on their attacks, so every month or so, the Jonga send one or two ships to strike coast, burn a village, and retreat. This leads to the Cresians abandoning their diverse array of coastal villages, instead building up the two or three that haven't been burned down (much) as places of refuge for large numbers of people. They keep a coastal defense fleet, and try to figure out ways to protect their sea beasts of burden.
The Cresian tradition of shapeshifting is expanded upon, now that the Cresians are having a greater interaction with the ocean. So we eventually end up with an order of shapeshifting seagoers, sorta . . . scurvy sea dogs. (sorry)
The Jonga realize they have to fortify their own defenses, so they clearcut any woods on the coast and bring it inland. For safety's sake they have to build ships inland now, but it makes their homeland more secure.
They also realize that Cresians aren't apparently able to warp stone or metal, so they build stone look-out posts along the shore and along major roads. Finally, their mages develop multiple ways of disrupting, scaring, or killing the sea beasts that draw Cresian fleets.
Ciaran
First Post
Mind if I join in the fun?
Cretian metallurgy may not get anywhere, but simple examination of the strange blood-metal from across the sea will reveal that direct sunlight causes metal to heat up, possibly to the point where it burns at a touch. This leads to the development of the heat metal spell, a powerful military advance against the Jongans.
Knowing the importance of food, and incensed by the destruction of their own farms by fire, I suspect that the Cresian priests would pray that the same indignities be inflicted upon the enemy; if the Jongans show so little respect for the Field-Father, then let their own lands go barren! Diminish plants would have a marked effect on Jongan agriculture. Of course, this requires that druids actually sneak over to the Jongan islands, and they can ill afford to lose any more members of their priestly caste. But the spells are subtle and require no direct contact with the Jongans. By the time the Jongans realize what’s happening, it may be too late.
Once the Cretian shapeshifters master their changes, they too can participate in guerilla warfare in Jonga, becoming truly fearsome spies and assassins. While advanced espionage lies far in the future, poisoning a well or a granary would be child’s play for a shapeshifter.
Do the Jongan wizards use spellbooks? I gather that the Cretians may not even have writing, in which case books will appear to them as some kind of bizarre magical talisman or fetish; but once they understand how important spellbooks are to the Jongan wizards, things can get nasty. All it takes is one hungry rat, bookworm, or other vermin to sneak into a wizard’s home and ruin his or her spellbook…
The Jongans, for their part, seem more culturally sophisticated than the Cretians, and are more likely to come up with high-level military tactics. Their bards will undoubtedly develop whispering wind, allowing the Jongan units to co-ordinate over long distances and making it easier to track down Cretian agents on the islands. Likewise, their wizards can use higher-level versions of flare as a signaling mechanism, thus passing along basic information to all other units over a wide area.
Ultimately, I don’t see a final winner in this conflict. This is a war of retaliation, not of conquest, and the battles will only serve to deplete each society’s manpower and resources. The Jongans, with their superior weapons and tactics, will win most pitched battles, but Cretian guerilla tactics will gnaw away at their infrastructure. Eventually, both sides should be sufficiently exhausted to dictate a de facto truce.
If neither culture crushes the other immediately, the Cretians have the advantage in the intermediate term, as their druids can guarantee a perpetual surplus of food, something the Jongans cannot expect. However, they seem to have a relatively complacent, hide-bound mindset by comparison to the Jongans. However, if the Cretians don’t take advantage of their faster growth to conquer or crush their opponents, then Jongan technological savvy and magical ingenuity will give them a long-term advantage.
Cretian metallurgy may not get anywhere, but simple examination of the strange blood-metal from across the sea will reveal that direct sunlight causes metal to heat up, possibly to the point where it burns at a touch. This leads to the development of the heat metal spell, a powerful military advance against the Jongans.
Knowing the importance of food, and incensed by the destruction of their own farms by fire, I suspect that the Cresian priests would pray that the same indignities be inflicted upon the enemy; if the Jongans show so little respect for the Field-Father, then let their own lands go barren! Diminish plants would have a marked effect on Jongan agriculture. Of course, this requires that druids actually sneak over to the Jongan islands, and they can ill afford to lose any more members of their priestly caste. But the spells are subtle and require no direct contact with the Jongans. By the time the Jongans realize what’s happening, it may be too late.
Once the Cretian shapeshifters master their changes, they too can participate in guerilla warfare in Jonga, becoming truly fearsome spies and assassins. While advanced espionage lies far in the future, poisoning a well or a granary would be child’s play for a shapeshifter.
Do the Jongan wizards use spellbooks? I gather that the Cretians may not even have writing, in which case books will appear to them as some kind of bizarre magical talisman or fetish; but once they understand how important spellbooks are to the Jongan wizards, things can get nasty. All it takes is one hungry rat, bookworm, or other vermin to sneak into a wizard’s home and ruin his or her spellbook…
The Jongans, for their part, seem more culturally sophisticated than the Cretians, and are more likely to come up with high-level military tactics. Their bards will undoubtedly develop whispering wind, allowing the Jongan units to co-ordinate over long distances and making it easier to track down Cretian agents on the islands. Likewise, their wizards can use higher-level versions of flare as a signaling mechanism, thus passing along basic information to all other units over a wide area.
Ultimately, I don’t see a final winner in this conflict. This is a war of retaliation, not of conquest, and the battles will only serve to deplete each society’s manpower and resources. The Jongans, with their superior weapons and tactics, will win most pitched battles, but Cretian guerilla tactics will gnaw away at their infrastructure. Eventually, both sides should be sufficiently exhausted to dictate a de facto truce.
If neither culture crushes the other immediately, the Cretians have the advantage in the intermediate term, as their druids can guarantee a perpetual surplus of food, something the Jongans cannot expect. However, they seem to have a relatively complacent, hide-bound mindset by comparison to the Jongans. However, if the Cretians don’t take advantage of their faster growth to conquer or crush their opponents, then Jongan technological savvy and magical ingenuity will give them a long-term advantage.
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