D&D (2024) Final Guesses: packet 7 subclasses

[Vaalingrade]

Why are there people so focused on D&D being the name of the thing they want,

Are you not seeing the irony here?

People trying to own what D&D is and dictating 'what is D&D' are doing exactly this. D&D isn't mine, or yours or this nebulous 'community's'. Trying to hold it back and keep it from improving to preserve a One True D&D that Never Existed is the problem.

 

[Vaalingrade]

To be clear: this isn't about remaking the game from the ground up.

This is about good, honest changes and improvements to the game being rejected on the grounds of this 'But it's not D&D' garbage.

 

[Scribe]

Why are there people so focused on D&D being the name of the thing they want, and changing D&D to be something it isn't, when it never has been that thing? Why not a different game? Is it because of the power of the IP? Do people want to be able to say "I play D&D" and it not mean a system they don't like?

Yes, they want the 800lb gorilla, the segment dominator, to cater to their whims and desires.

Because no matter if there are a million systems out there, there is only 1 current version of D&D, and that is the system people assume as the default.

Right, wrong or otherwise.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Are you not seeing the irony here? People trying to own what D&D is and dictating 'what is D&D' are doing exactly this. D&D isn't mine, or yours or this nebulous 'community's'. Trying to hold it back and keep it from improving to preserve a One True D&D that Never Existed is the problem.

D&D is literally defined by what it has ever been. I'm not saying that it has never changed. Of course it can evolve and still be D&D, and it has. Multiple times. I'm not trying to "OWN" a One True D&D. I like most of the core conceits of D&D and I like playing around with how those core conceits are explored for potential improvement. The playtest has played around with a lot of potential changes. Heck, there are changes I want that they are pulling back on (Wildshape templates and Pact Magic, for an example).

You seem to be suggesting that making D&D into something it has never been is a clear and obvious improvement. It isn't. It's not clear, and it's not obvious, and you have provided no example proving that it is. It's just like, your opinion, man. It just looks like you don't like the current system and want something different. I will ask again. Can you point at a game that does what you want? Or are there no games that do what you want? And if there are no games that do what you want, how can that design be the obvious improvements that are better than how 5E does it?

D&D doesn't have to be the thing that is changed for you to be happy. You seem to want a game that makes you happy. Why change something many like, abandoning those D&D fans, for ideas that are not proveably better? Why are you the one that gets to change the definition of D&D?

To be clear: this isn't about remaking the game from the ground up.

This is about good, honest changes and improvements to the game being rejected on the grounds of this 'But it's not D&D' garbage.

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SNIP Vaalingrade: It should have tried to do literally anything and absolutely discarded backward compatibility

Which of the above two arguments are accurate? They look like direct contradictions to me.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You seem to be suggesting that making D&D into something it has never been is a clear and obvious improvement.

No. That's pure rhetorical invention and not on my part.

I'm saying the rejecting any positive changed with the sole argument is 'it's not D&D' is bad for the game.

Which of the above two arguments are accurate? They look like direct contradictions to me.

'Tried to do literally anything' as in actually tried instead of what we got for 5.24.

Part of my theme here is wishing the devs either wanted to or were allowed to try.

 

[NaturalZero]

First thing we need to do to build a better D&D: ignore whenever someone declares something 'not D&D'.

Sometimes, I imagine what it would be like to show up in the 70s with 5e books and try to pitch the system to he DND players of that era, or specifically Gygax's groups.

I know they'd hate it.

It's always funny to me when people don't want to fix spellcasting or class delinations because "it's not DnD" when the game is barely recognizable, mechanically, from what it was originally.

 

[Remathilis]

Since this is imminent

Barbarian: berserker, totem/wild heart, storm, ancestor

Fighter: champion, battlemaster, EK, new

Sorcerer: draconic, wild, storm, shadow

Warlock: fiend, fey, GOO, new (replacing hexblade)

Wizard: evoker, necro, diviner, illusionist

 

[Parmandur]

Since this is imminent

Barbarian: berserker, totem/wild heart, storm, ancestor

Fighter: champion, battlemaster, EK, new

Sorcerer: draconic, wild, storm, shadow

Warlock: fiend, fey, GOO, new (replacing hexblade)

Wizard: evoker, necro, diviner, illusionist

Mostly the same, but:

Barbarian: cut ancestor for a new Subclass

Fighter: Rune Knight instead of a new one.

Sorcerer: cut Shadow for a new Sub

Warlock: Celestial instead of a new option

Wizard: Bladesinger instead of Diviner.

 

[Remathilis]

Since this is imminent

Barbarian: berserker, totem/wild heart, storm, ancestor

Fighter: champion, battlemaster, EK, new

Sorcerer: draconic, wild, storm, shadow

Warlock: fiend, fey, GOO, new (replacing hexblade)

Wizard: evoker, necro, diviner, illusionist

Barbarian: did not see a Planar bbn sub, and missed zealot

Fighter: spot on

Sorcerer: actually disappointed. I wanted revised subs, not the safe Tasha's picks that already had bonus spells.

Warlock: I would have preferred another choice up celestial, but makes sense.

I guess necro was a false alarm? I didn't think we would get anything but specialists though.

 

[Parmandur]

Sorcerer: actually disappointed. I wanted revised subs, not the safe Tasha's picks that already had bonus spells.

Well, they are oddball choices...but it fives the Sorcerer the identity of the oddball, off the wall caster, with Wild Magic or Psionics or Modrons. Makes sense when theynlaid it out, and all the Tasha's options are up to date with their current standards of design and popularity.

Warlock: I would have preferred another choice up celestial, but makes sense.

It gives a non-Edgelord option, which I appreciate.

I guess necro was a false alarm? I didn't think we would get anything but specialists though.

Yeah, guess they changed their mind at some point in the past 6 months?