Help me rework the half-elf.

[IndyPendant]

I need some help, so I thought I'd fish for ideas here. But first, let me say that I do not want this to be a thread about whether the half-elf needs fixing or if it's just fine as is. So *please* don't post about that, here. I happen to think the half-elf is weak, but that is not the purpose of this thread. If you think the half-elf is fine, then think of this thread as changing the theme of the half-elf.

I want the half-elf to be all about skill adaptability, the way the human corners the market on bonus skill points (and feat). I have been working, off and on, with the half-elf for about a year now, without any luck, and it's the last SRD race and class I feel compelled to fix, and then I'm done. Here is the closest I've come to what I'm trying to accomplish, but I feel it's...lacking, somehow. Clunky, or perhaps even too narrow in scope. Still, this should give you an idea of what I'm trying to achieve for the race.

Any feedback, suggestions, or ideas of your own are more than welcome; they're the point of this post. : )

Thanks.

Half-Elves:
--Medium: As Medium creatures, half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
--Half-elf base land speed is 30 feet.
--+4 bonus to sleep spells and similar magical effects, and a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells or effects.
--Low-Light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
--+1 racial bonus on all Charisma- and Dexterity-based skill checks.
--Half-elves receive Skill Affinity with any two skills of their choice as a bonus feat. Once chosen, these skills cannot be changed.
--Half-elves receive Skill Focus, Paired with any two skills of their choice as a bonus feat. Once chosen, these skills cannot be changed.
--Half-elves receive one martial weapon proficiency of their choice, or may treat any one exotic weapon as martial.
--Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf.
--Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).
--Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass half-elf takes an experience point penalty, her highest-level class does not count.

Skill Affinity [General]
Source: Skill Familiarity, from the 3e Tower.
Benefit: Choose any two skills. From the moment this feat is taken those skills are considered to be class skills for all that character’s classes.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to two new skills.

Skill Focus, Paired [General]
You choose any two skills, such as Listen and Spot. You have a special knack with those skills.
Source: Adapted from thousands.
Benefit: Choose any two skills. You get a +2 bonus on all skill checks with the chosen skills.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to two new skills.
Note: This feat is designed to replace the five million individually-named feats out there that each serve exactly the same function, and does not stack with any such feat. This Feat does stack with the feats Combat Casting, Skill Boost, Skill Focus, and similar feats. If you are uncertain about whether another feat stacks with this one, check with me.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I don't like it.
It is too skill focused. And just doesn't feel like a half elf. It feels more like a variant human to me if it weren't for elven blood and the languages.

I simply have them as per PHB in my game but I get rid of their bonus to diplomacy and gather info and give them extra skill points like humans and increase their bonus to spot/search/listen to +2. Makes them much more attractive to players IME.

 

[the Lorax]

I have decided for my homebrew that Half-orcs and Half-elves both get the "human" bonus skill points. It helps make the Half-elves tha masters of flexibility that I think they should be and is a nice bonus for the classes that they are well suited for, ie Bards and Rangers.

 

[IndyPendant]

But then, as one of my players pointed out, *all* the human gets is three things: bonus skills, bonus feat, and favoured class: any. If you give the half-elf bonus skills, then that means that, for the purposes of balance, the human's single bonus feat has to equal the half-elf's:
--immunity to sleep
--+2 vs enchantments
--low-light vision
--+1 to listen, search, and spot
--+2 to diplomacy and gather info
--extra language (elven)
Aust's option of removing the +2 Dip/GI helps balance them--but removes much of the uniqueness of the human in addition, since again that's all the human gets.

However I do agree it's too skill focused. That's why I'm posting here; asking for help. So let me put it this way: if *you* had a race that you wanted to have a lot of flexibility in skill bonuses (but not treading on the human's toes with bonus skill points) and somehow flexibility in combat choices as well (which I was trying to represent--poorly I admit--with the free-martial-or-exotic-as-martial line)--how would you do it?

 

[Nifft]

I have decided for my homebrew that Half-orcs and Half-elves both get the "human" bonus skill points. It helps make the Half-elves tha masters of flexibility that I think they should be and is a nice bonus for the classes that they are well suited for, ie Bards and Rangers.

Same here.

And IMC Elves aren't universally loved, so they can face stigma similar to what the typical Half-Orc PC faces. (Not all the time, of course, but Elf-Bane, Favored Enemy (Elf) and such do come up every now and then.)

-- N

 

[farscapesg1]

But then, as one of my players pointed out, *all* the human gets is three things: bonus skills, bonus feat, and favoured class: any. If you give the half-elf bonus skills, then that means that, for the purposes of balance, the human's single bonus feat has to equal the half-elf's:
--immunity to sleep
--+2 vs enchantments
--low-light vision
--+1 to listen, search, and spot
--+2 to diplomacy and gather info
--extra language (elven)
Aust's option of removing the +2 Dip/GI helps balance them--but removes much of the uniqueness of the human in addition, since again that's all the human gets.

I have to agree here. For those of you that give the half-elf the extra skill points, what benefits do humans get? In most campaign worlds (at least published ones), humans are the majority and so they should be the most common race to be selected as a character. If all they get is 1 bonus feat, compared to half-elves, while the half-elves still get their usual bonuses, why would any player choose a human?

One thing you could give the half-elf is the equivalent of the Able Learner feat. Basically, all skills only cost 1 skill point (even cross class ones) for one rank.

Alternatively, you could give the half-elf the option of considering cross-class skills as class skills for maximum rank purposes. In other words, even a cross class skill could have 4 ranks at first level, but it would cost 8 skill points to get that.

Definitely don't give them both of these options though

 

[Thanee]

I have to agree here. For those of you that give the half-elf the extra skill points, what benefits do humans get?

Nothing. They are still the best race (together with dwarves).
Giving Half-Elves the same bonus skill points doesn't change this.

The Able Learner idea has some merit, definitely. That really fits well.
But with that they are probably better than humans then, if you just give the PHB Half-Elf that feat in addition to everything else. At least better than all humans, who pick up that feat, that is...

Bye
Thanee

 

[IndyPendant]

Able Learner, I think, is too much--although it's a great feat that I somehow managed adding to my feats list, so thanks for that.

Alternatively, you could give the half-elf the option of considering cross-class skills as class skills for maximum rank purposes. In other words, even a cross class skill could have 4 ranks at first level, but it would cost 8 skill points to get that.

However, I *really* like this idea, and may incorporate it into my half-elves. Not overly powerful, the character still has to really work for it--but if he wants it, the option's there.

Nothing. They are still the best race (together with dwarves). Giving Half-Elves the same bonus skill points doesn't change this.

So just to make sure here, you're saying that all of those abilities I listed in my earlier post aren't even worth one feat? Because if elves get the humans' bonus skill points, then the *only* thing the humans get over half-elves is +1 feat, and you are saying humans would still be the best race? I'm...confused.

 

[Thanee]

Yes, that is what I said.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I agree with Thanee, that one extra feat humans get is worth alot IMO.