Homebrewed PRC for a melee warlock

[Jackinthegreen]

The problem now is you're pretty much saying he can't have those contingencies because you don't agree with the interpretation of how that specific item creation feat works. Until such time as the two of you do agree to resolve it (and only one of you has at the time of this posting) then you're almost certainly not going to have the comparison. I imagine that doesn't matter much for you though, Nezkrul.

But do keep in mind pretty much everyone, upon looking at the rules for Imbue Item and Craft Contingent Spell, would say that a warlock can indeed use that feat because it does create an item that happens to have a spell effect on it. It is an item creation feat after all.

There might be some debate as to whether Dandu is trolling you. He's trying to get you to understand his position, and has provided several pieces of information to substantiate that. You of course disagree and have decided to leave that discussion, but Dandu perhaps has not left it alone. Is that trolling or simply being stubborn? The two aren't mutually exclusive of course, but they're certainly not mutually inclusive either.

Looking at why you disagree with a Contingent Spell being a magic item, that's somewhat clarified in CArc page 139. I'll add the full text of that in a... Well, I can't find any spoiler tags, so they're hanging out in full view I guess.

CONTINGENT SPELLS
A contingent spell is a single-use, one-spell magical effect
instilled within a specifi c willing creature. It doesn’t take
up space on the body or have a physical form, and it remains
inactive until triggered (similar to the effect created by a
contingency spell). Once triggered, a contingent spell takes
immediate effect upon the bearer (or is centered in the
bearer’s square if the spell affects an area). A character must
have the Craft Contingent Spell feat (see page 77) to create
contingent spells.
Triggers for contingent spells are usually events that
happen to the bearer of the spell, and can include death,
contracting disease, exposure to a breath weapon or to energy
damage, falling, exposure to poison, exposure to a dangerous
environment (trapped by fi re, plunged underwater, and so
forth), succumbing to sleep or fear effects, gaining negative
levels, or being rendered helpless, deafened, or blinded.
The market price of a contingent spell is spell level × caster
level × 100 gp. A contingent spell must be prepared in the
presence of the person to bear it, and the bearer is subject to
the same restrictions as the creator (unable to cast any other
spells while the contingent spell is being prepared, must be
present for 8 hours each day, and so on). Once assigned to a
bearer, a contingent spell cannot be transferred to another
creature, although it can be destroyed (see below). A contingent
spell is tied to the bearer’s body, alive or dead, and stories
circulate among adventurers of contingent spells remaining
quiet for hundreds of years on a slain bearer’s remains, only to
suddenly activate when the proper trigger condition arises.
If the bearer of a contingent spell is the target of dispel
magic, the contingent spell might be permanently dispelled
(but not triggered), as if it were an active spell in effect on
the target creature. In an antimagic fi eld, contingent spells are
temporarily suppressed as all other magic items are.
At any one time, a creature can bear a number of contingent
spells equal to its Hit Dice. Attempts to apply additional
contingent spells beyond this limit simply fail.

 

[Dandu]

As you can see, I never brought up the "RAW" or "RAI" tags, nor did I attack anything about your EG character, I simply made a statement, about my opinion, about needing ranks in skills to know about spells for imbue item to even work anyways, because Use Magic Device is not Knowledge. Then you took it personally.

Then what, in your opinion, are the proper knowledge skills that would be needed? You said earlier that, in your opinion, warlocks do not get the proper knowledge skills to identify spells. However, we know from reading the rules that they get Spellcraft, Knowledge Arcana and Knowledge Religion. If these are not the right skills, I would like to know what skills, in your opinion, are the right skills.

what type of "magic item" is a contingent spell?

from Chapter 5: Magic Items

New Types of Items

The basic types of magic items described in the Dungeon Master's Guide -- armor, weapons, potions, scrolls, rods, rings, staffs, wands, and wondrous items -- are not necessarily the only types of magic item possible. In Faerûn, the world of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, magic tattoos, magic runes, and contingent spells are common magic items, each crafted in the same manner as a standard magic item and requiring its own unique item creation feat (Tattoo Magic, Inscribe Rune, and Craft Contingent Spell). Rune magic is described in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, magic tattoos are described in Races of Faerûn, and contingent spells appear in the Unapproachable East sourcebook (and are included in Complete Arcane for use in any D&D campaign).

Richard Baker himself says in the Complete Arcane that contingent spells are a type of new magical item. Do you accept the word of Richard Baker, the man who wrote the Complete Arcane and the warlock class.

Spell Trigger? nope, Spell Completion? nada.

It is a new type of magic item introduced in the Complete Arcane, originally from the FR supplement Unapproachable East, according to the text in the Complete Arcane.

This is why I say Warlocks can't use Craft Contingent Spell feat, because the description of the feat specifically says they can make contingent spells they know.

Imbue Item (Su): A warlock of 12th level or higher can use his supernatural power to create magic items, even if he does not know the spells required to make an item (although he must know the appropriate item creation feat). He can substitute a Use Magic Device check (DC 15 + spell level for arcane spells or 25 + spell level for divine spells) in place of a required spell he doesn’t know or can’t cast.

Read the green text. It addresses your point nicely.

The result is a contingent spell, not a spell-completion magic item (that you can use magic device or spellcraft on), nor a spell-trigger item (that you can also use magic device on); but a basically permanent duration contingent SPELL (not a magic item).

You are correct that a contingent spell is not a spell-completion magic item, or a spell-trigger item. But those are not the only types of magic items. As Richard Baker says in the Complete Arcane, contingent spells are a new magic item. Here, I'll even provide the quote.

In Faerûn, the world of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, magic tattoos, magic runes, and contingent spells are common magic items

Contingent spells are magic items.

He can use Imbue item on other items, IMO, but not Craft Contingent Spell because of the wording.

Please quote the exact wording that leads you to dispute my interpretation.

The two bits you seem to be hung up on are:

You know how to attach semipermanent spells to a creature and set them to activate under certain conditions.

Which the poster above me addressed,

You can make contingent any spell that you know.

Which the warlock class addresses with the Imbue Item class feature: A warlock of 12th level or higher can use his supernatural power to create magic items, even if he does not know the spells required to make an item (although he must know the appropriate item creation feat). He can substitute a Use Magic Device check (DC 15 + spell level for arcane spells or 25 + spell level for divine spells) in place of a required spell he doesn’t know or can’t cast.

You keep telling me to prove something to you, I don't flipping have to, IT'S MY OPINION guy. Incase you don't understand, IMO means "in my opinion" and you're arguing against my opinion AFTER I already said I agree to disagree with you, MOVING ON;

You have a right to an opinion, as do I. What determines whether our opinions are correct or not?

I, for example, could have the opinion that gravity does not exist and that we are all held in place on earth by the invisible hands of Odin. This is my opinion. Now, a physicist would be of the opinion that the gravitational force is what keeps me from flying off into space - and who is to say which opinion is right or wrong?

Well... the laws of physics would. I mean, the gravitational force is a well established part of the natural laws of the universe. The invisible hands of Odin, less so. The laws of gravitation provide more predictions about how the universe works than the idea that Odin holds everything in place.

Now, apply this to D&D. You have you idea of how things work, and I have mine. To determine which one is right, we must consult the laws of the game... otherwise known as the rules.

By the rules, contingent spells are magic items. They are listed in the magic items section under "New Magic Items", are called magic items by the author of the book and the warlock class, and are created with an item creation feat, which is a feat for those who which to create items.

therefore you are now trolling my post. So either, contribute or GTFO; thanks

If you truly believe me to be trolling, you need only report me. The button for doing so is a yellow triangle with an exclamation mark located in the bottom left corner of my post.

I have nothing more to contribute; your cup is already full to the brim. I wish you the best of luck in improving your prestige class.

 

[Dandu]

There might be some debate as to whether Dandu is trolling you.

On the contrary; there can be no debate as to this issue.

Looking at why you disagree with a Contingent Spell being a magic item, that's somewhat clarified in CArc page 139. I'll add the full text of that in a... Well, I can't find any spoiler tags, so they're hanging out in full view I guess.

[sblock]CONTINGENT SPELLS
A contingent spell is a single-use, one-spell magical effect
instilled within a specifi c willing creature. It doesn’t take
up space on the body or have a physical form, and it remains
inactive until triggered (similar to the effect created by a
contingency spell). Once triggered, a contingent spell takes
immediate effect upon the bearer (or is centered in the
bearer’s square if the spell affects an area). A character must
have the Craft Contingent Spell feat (see page 77) to create
contingent spells.
Triggers for contingent spells are usually events that
happen to the bearer of the spell, and can include death,
contracting disease, exposure to a breath weapon or to energy
damage, falling, exposure to poison, exposure to a dangerous
environment (trapped by fi re, plunged underwater, and so
forth), succumbing to sleep or fear effects, gaining negative
levels, or being rendered helpless, deafened, or blinded.
The market price of a contingent spell is spell level × caster
level × 100 gp. A contingent spell must be prepared in the
presence of the person to bear it, and the bearer is subject to
the same restrictions as the creator (unable to cast any other
spells while the contingent spell is being prepared, must be
present for 8 hours each day, and so on). Once assigned to a
bearer, a contingent spell cannot be transferred to another
creature, although it can be destroyed (see below). A contingent
spell is tied to the bearer’s body, alive or dead, and stories
circulate among adventurers of contingent spells remaining
quiet for hundreds of years on a slain bearer’s remains, only to
suddenly activate when the proper trigger condition arises.
If the bearer of a contingent spell is the target of dispel
magic, the contingent spell might be permanently dispelled
(but not triggered), as if it were an active spell in effect on
the target creature. In an antimagic fi eld, contingent spells are
temporarily suppressed as all other magic items are.
At any one time, a creature can bear a number of contingent
spells equal to its Hit Dice. Attempts to apply additional
contingent spells beyond this limit simply fail.[/sblock]

Put some spoiler tags on. Children are present.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

On the contrary; there can be no debate as to this issue.

It was more on what the definition of "trolling" was than whether you were actually doing it. It doesn't have a concrete definition, or if it does it's still up for interpretation in some cases. I can see why @Nezkrul might think that way since you continued to state your side even after he tried to bow out, but I wouldn't call that trolling so much as being a bit stubborn, which has its uses at times.

By the way, what the heck are the spoiler tags here on ENworld anyway? I tried doing

Spoiler

and

but it's not working.

Edit: Well, alright, it does work in the sense that it's a spoiler by blocking out the text unless someone chooses to read it, but it's not the collapsible button that I'm used to in other places. And the quote button doesn't show the tags.

 

[Dandu]

[sblock]sblock, my friend. sblock.[/sblock]