How often do your players multiclass?

[Satyrn]

Here's a question: Do any of you think that you and/or or your players would multi-class more often if the ASI was treated the same way as a Proficiency Bonus? I.E., you'll get them at 4/8/12/etc. regardless of which classes you pick? (assume that Fighters are adjusted to just be given Bonus ASI at certain levels).

After 5th level certainly, for the martial characters. Extra Attack is a bigger draw for me than feats are.

It wouldn't change anything for me when it comes to spellcasters, since losing out on preparing the highest level spells would always be the cost that makes me hesitate.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think It depends on if you are comparing to characters with damage feats or without them.

Not really.

Unless there has been some ruling on twitter that makes no sense, GWM and SS both refer to attacks, but not to the attack action, so they work fine with cantrip weapon attacks.

PM references attack action for part of it, but that part does less extra damage than the cantrips, and the other part of the feat works fine, and is IME why people take the feat.

DW isn't an optimised feat, but even if it were, it plays just fine with Booming Blade.

So, no. Getting extra attack a few levels later isn't going to hurt much, and whatever small loss you feel from not getting a second -5+10 (and if it's something you are able to do twice a turn on a regular basis...your DM isn't challenging you) per turn will be made up for with the extras of the cantrips.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Here's a question: Do any of you think that you and/or or your players would multi-class more often if the ASI was treated the same way as a Proficiency Bonus? I.E., you'll get them at 4/8/12/etc. regardless of which classes you pick? (assume that Fighters are adjusted to just be given Bonus ASI at certain levels).

That might help, but personally I think the issue is that levels 1-3 are pretty dead for most classes except for the initial archetype abilities. Character levels 1-2 go very fast in normal play. Class levels 1-2 are a slog when you multiclass. The big exception is Warlock because that class is so shallow.

 

[FrogReaver]

Not really.

Unless there has been some ruling on twitter that makes no sense, GWM and SS both refer to attacks, but not to the attack action, so they work fine with cantrip weapon attacks.

PM references attack action for part of it, but that part does less extra damage than the cantrips, and the other part of the feat works fine, and is IME why people take the feat.

DW isn't an optimised feat, but even if it were, it plays just fine with Booming Blade.

So, no. Getting extra attack a few levels later isn't going to hurt much, and whatever small loss you feel from not getting a second -5+10 (and if it's something you are able to do twice a turn on a regular basis...your DM isn't challenging you) per turn will be made up for with the extras of the cantrips.

Doing 1 attack with -5/+10 and accuracy fixes vs doing 2-3 attacks with -5/+10 with accuracy fixes is a huge difference even with the single attack getting 1d8 extra damage.

 

[lluewhyn]

That might help, but personally I think the issue is that levels 1-3 are pretty dead for most classes except for the initial archetype abilities. Character levels 1-2 go very fast in normal play. Class levels 1-2 are a slog when you multiclass. The big exception is Warlock because that class is so shallow.

Well, I asked because a lot of signature abilities (Extra Attack/Fireball) are gained around level 5, which is 3 levels to your next ASI. A person could be tempted to change starting at level 6, but know that they're delaying an ASI by 1 level (or worse if they wait until 6 for something like a Valor Bard). If ASIs were based upon total character level rather than Class level, there would be less penalty for switching as soon as you got the big ability you were waiting for. Taken to ludicrous extremes for example, someone who multi-classed 6 times for ~3 levels each would see a huge difference when it came to an ASI the way it is now vs. making it total level based.

 

[Yunru]

Doing 1 attack with -5/+10 and accuracy fixes vs doing 2-3 attacks with -5/+10 with accuracy fixes is a huge difference even with the single attack getting 1d8 extra damage.

It really isn't. It's about +4 damage.

 

[FrogReaver]

It really isn't. It's about +4 damage.

At 15 ac i ge close to +8 DPR. That’s a bug DPR increase both relative and absolute for a level 5 character.

 

[CleverNickName]

In 3rd Edition and Pathfinder, my players were constantly multiclassing. It was rare for there to be a single-classed person in the party.

We switched to 5E a few years ago, and I have yet to see a single multiclassed character. Not even for one-off games.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Doing 1 attack with -5/+10 and accuracy fixes vs doing 2-3 attacks with -5/+10 with accuracy fixes is a huge difference even with the single attack getting 1d8 extra damage.

What accuracy fix are you using that is reliable enough to count on being able to use the -5+10 most rounds?

It really isn't. It's about +4 damage.

At 15 ac i ge close to +8 DPR. That’s a bug DPR increase both relative and absolute for a level 5 character.

I’d love to see those calculations, bc I rather doubt the +8 outside of calcs that are so white room as to be useless.

 

[FrogReaver]

What accuracy fix are you using that is reliable enough to count on being able to use the -5+10 most rounds?

I’d love to see those calculations, bc I rather doubt the +8 outside of calcs that are so white room as to be useless.

Sure I just hope I don't have to go into how precision attack works.

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Battle Master Fighter 5 [16 str, GWM (-5/+10), precision attack (equivalent to about +3 attack on every attack in the adventuring day)] vs 15 AC

Attack = 3 (proficiency) + 3 (str) + 3 (precision) -5 (GWM) = 4 attack
Damage per hit = 7 (Greatsword) + 10 (GWM) + 3 (Str) = 20 Damage per hit

DPR = 50% chance to hit (+4 attack vs 15 AC) * 20 Damage Per Hit * 2 (Extra Attack) = 20 DPR

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Battle Master Fighter 4 Wizard 1 [16 str, GWM (-5/+10), booming blade,(+1d8), precision attack (equivalent to about +3 attack on every attack in the adventuring day)] vs 15 AC

Attack = 3 (proficiency) + 3 (str) + 3 (precision) -5 (GWM) = 4 attack
Damage per hit = 7 (Greatsword) + 10 (GWM) + 3 (Str) + 4.5 (Booming Blade) = 24.5 Damage per hit

DPR = 50% chance to hit (+4 attack vs 15 AC) * 24.5 Damage Per Hit = 12.25 DPR