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I heard that there is a "fix" to Time Stop...

KarinsDad

Adventurer
Magus_Jerel said:

- KD, 1 Is my interprtation -

If you have the FR "weave" thing going on - then you can cast the spell just fine, but it goes out to the WEAVE - and the weave is still at "normal" speed - frozen with respect to you until you slow down.
Ironically, your character can actually watch the spell start to take effect as he casts another one. It just can't complete this until He slows down enough to let it "catch up"

I have to admit. This is the second best interpretation (I think mine is better :) ).

It does present some minor problems though. Multiple target spells cast before the Time Stop by the caster will continue to operate on others, but not the Wizard.

For example, Mass Haste.

So, you have to calculate different “end rounds” for some spells and some portions of spells, depending on whether the Wizard was a target of the spell.

Not a biggy, just a minor bookkeeping annoyance.


What if the Wizard “delays” while inside the Time Stop? Does his initiative change?

Well, with your interpretation, it must (theoretically) since true time (i.e. real rounds) are occurring within the Time Stop, at least with respect to the Wizard. And, a delay within the Time Stop could be held over into real time. Hence, in a round visible to the outside world, he could move, cast Time Stop, move and cast another spell when he comes out.

The reason real time (fast, but real) is happening inside the Time Stop (with your interpretation) is that spells like Contingency would work inside of it. Just like your Resist Fire example, the weave of Contingency is already in effect. New magic is not firing off, it is just current magic (the companion spell has already been cast) reacting to a contingency event. So, if you had a Contingency Protection From Fire and walked over lava while Time Stopped, the Protection From Fire is already up, just waiting to work and would protect you.

With my interpretation, it isn’t true time. Hence, it matters not what he does inside the Time Stop, when he comes out, his rounds and initiative pick up where they left off, even if he delays within the Time Stop.

Now, you could rule against this in your interpretation, but literally according to the rules, this would be the result.


In your interpretation, a falling Wizard who cast Time Stop would continue to fall. They are real rounds and it is real time to the Wizard. Just like fire and cold still damages him, gravity would still affect him normally. If you say, no no, he is moving very very fast and gravity would hardly affect him at all. Then how does he move about when Time Stopped? The simplest step would be a giant leap, worse than being on the Moon.

Now, here I am getting a little silly. Bringing physics into the discussion doesn’t really work. But, I think you understand my point.

If it is not real time and the only thing within that “dimensional bubble of quasi-time” that is affected by it is the Wizard, then it explains why his spells do not start up until it “expires”. Nothing gets pulled into the quasi-time with the Wizard unless he does it himself. His spells do not get pulled in (i.e. their durations do not exist within it, the weave does not power them since the weave is working in slow motion, the weave only powers the Time Stop), the air around him does not get pulled in unless he breathes that air into himself, solid objects around him do not get pulled in unless he picks them up, etc.

His spells do not work in the time bubble. His Contingency cannot react to an event since by the time the event occurs within the bubble, the Time Stop has already expired. So yes, if he walks on Lava within the Time Stop, the Contingency will fire off. But, the duration of the Protection From Fire spell will not start until the Time Stop “expires”, just like the duration of any spell the Wizard casts or any potion he drinks will not start until it expires.


And the funniest question, regardless of interpretation is:

What if the Wizard forgets to share the spell with his familiar in his pocket?

The Wizard cannot move without ripping his clothes since he cannot pull the familiar out of his pocket. :)
 

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Magus_Jerel

First Post
quote:
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Originally posted by Magus_Jerel
Hmmm - specific to LC
Countermeasures VS The good ol Time Stop Trick

Wizard/Sor answers

quickened damage dealing spell to force concentration check

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Sorry, quickened does not work.

When the caster comes out of Time Stop, it is still his turn. He still gets free actions and possibly even a move equivalent. Opposing casters cannot cast quickened spells during that time without a house rule.


KD - I think you misunderstood me there. I am trying to prevent the guy from casting time stop in the first place, just like any other spell :)

Now - Caliban's point worries me

Sorry, you lost initiative to the wizard. Your dead before you can cast any of those spells, quickened or not. (The Quicken spell feat does not let you cast spells on someone elses turn.)

Hmmm - and it says this where? Chapter and verse please -

If I am flatfooted and UNAWARE - thus suprised - I could see this, but what if I AM aware? I don't see this restriction in the actual feat or any explicit prohibition against it anywhere. The only free action I know of that is limited in this fashion is the Barbarian's Rage, and that restriction is in the actual description of the text.
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
Magus_Jerel said:

KD - I think you misunderstood me there. I am trying to prevent the guy from casting time stop in the first place, just like any other spell :)

Yeah, it's getting late.

I was answering your question, zoned, and went off on a weird tangent there.

Quickened spells still do not work.

When he starts to cast the Time Stop spell, any opposing caster cannot cast a Quickened spell since it is not that opposing caster's turn. He must have a ready action to attempt to disrupt the spell.
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
Magus_Jerel said:
Now - Caliban's point worries me

quote:
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Sorry, you lost initiative to the wizard. Your dead before you can cast any of those spells, quickened or not. (The Quicken spell feat does not let you cast spells on someone elses turn.)

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Hmmm - and it says this where? Chapter and verse please -

If I am flatfooted and UNAWARE - thus suprised - I could see this, but what if I AM aware? I don't see this restriction in the actual feat or any explicit prohibition against it anywhere. The only free action I know of that is limited in this fashion is the Barbarian's Rage, and that restriction is in the actual description of the text.

Quicken allows you to cast a spell as a free action.

You can only use free actions while you are taking another action (i.e. during a Standard, Full, or Partial Action).

PHB, page 121, Free Action.

And if you want to argue otherwise, you had better present chapter and verse.
 
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AGGEMAM

First Post
Magus_Jerel said:
If I am flatfooted and UNAWARE - thus suprised - I could see this, but what if I AM aware? I don't see this restriction in the actual feat or any explicit prohibition against it anywhere. The only free action I know of that is limited in this fashion is the Barbarian's Rage, and that restriction is in the actual description of the text.

Say what? Dude, you really need to check the definitions of actions (free or otherwise) it's in PHB, page 121.
 
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KarinsDad

Adventurer
Magus_Jerel said:

Hmmm - and it says this where? Chapter and verse please -

Quickened actions are free actions. PHB page 84.

"Casting a quickened spell is a free action."

Free actions can only usually be taken on your turn. PHB page 121.

"You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally."

Well, what other action can you take on an opposing character's turn? AoO. So, if he is standing next to you, you can AoO swing at him if he does not Cast Defensively and you could get off a Quickened spell.

But, the chances of him not stepping 5' away or Casting Defensively at high level are...

And of course, the word "normally" in the sentence above might also preclude AoOs.


The point is that you can only attempt to stop him if he allows it.

Hence, high level NPC wizard wins initiative. He casts Time Stop. He gets a bunch of spells off and seriously damages your party.

In your interpretation, high level NPC wizard wins initiative. He casts Haste followed by Time Stop. He gets even more spells off and does not seriously damages your party. He wipes them out completely.

Hence, your interpretation is even more unbalanced than the way Time Stop is written. There is no defense against it.
 
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Magus_Jerel

First Post
KD - a few of good points.

yes - you do have the bookeeping annoyance concerning mass target spells.

now, when it comes to contingency - the conditions that set the contingency OFF could be triggered under time stop, but contingency then tries to go out to the weave and bring into effect the relevant spell for the wizard - and gets frozen just like every other spell. In this unique case, the contingency spell - not the wizard is "casting". You get the same result under the "no time" interpretation as well.

A wizard COULD refocus under time stop as a spell - but I am not sure that this is likely.

With how does the wizard move - that falls under trying to think too much about a fantasy game.

yeah - what If he does forget to share the spell.


Now - I need to ask you - just as I did Caliban - why can't I throw a quickened spell (a free action)? There is no explicit prohibition against it in the feat description. Now - If I am in the suprise round and flat footed, this is true - but what If I am aware?

The only free action I am aware of that bears this restriction is the Barbarian's Rage - and that is contained explicitly in the text of the ability.
 
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AGGEMAM

First Post
Magus_Jerel, one would think that knowing that you can only perform free actions on your turn is such basic knowledge that we didn't have to point it out.

Besides the definition of a Free Action, I might also suggest reading the Quicken Spell description again. (1st Print or otherwise).
 
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Magus_Jerel

First Post
Free actions can only usually be taken on your turn. PHB page 121.

um - I don't have this text at all. Here is what I have:

Free Action: Free Actions consume a very small amount of time and effort, and over the span of the round, their impact is so minor that they are considered free. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, the DM may put reasonable limits on what you can do for free. For instance, calling out to your friends for help is free. Reciting your clan's war history, however, takes several minutes.


Also - your wording states "only usually be taken on your turn" - which is STRANGE to me.

Now, if the spell isn't quickened - you definitely need a readied action, that is a given. But what if the casting is a free action? It does mean a quickened spell, but tis a small price to avoid the time stop trap.

If you are using the suprise round rules, and get suprised and therefore am flat footed - this is void due to the rules concerning unaware combatants. That caveat given - I don't see why I cannot take a free action to interrupt another's action.

If I can shout a warning to "hit the deck" and that warning be acted upon when it is not my "initiative" Then I am almost certainly able to hit the bozo wizzie who is trying that cute time stop biz.

If My shouting NO could stop a child from touching a Hot stove - at least a free action could in THEORY interrupt someone else's action....

I thought AoO's WERE special "free actions awarded by virtue of opponents action".
 

AGGEMAM

First Post
Magus_Jerel said:
Free actions can only usually be taken on your turn. PHB page 121.

Strike out 'usually' and you got it right!

um - I don't have this text at all. Here is what I have:

Free Action: Free Actions consume a very small amount of time and effort, and over the span of the round, their impact is so minor that they are considered free. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, the DM may put reasonable limits on what you can do for free. For instance, calling out to your friends for help is free. Reciting your clan's war history, however, takes several minutes.

Emphasis added


Also - your wording states "only usually be taken on your turn" - which is STRANGE to me.

The poster of that statement made a mistake.

If I can shout a warning to "hit the deck" and that warning be acted upon when it is not my "initiative" Then I am almost certainly able to hit the bozo wizzie who is trying that cute time stop biz.

You can't shout out anything when it is not your turn!

I thought AoO's WERE special "free actions awarded by virtue of opponents action".

And wouldn't you know, all the actions that grant AoOs are described in the book.

And what can you do with an AoO, well (a single melee) attack is what you can do. Not casting a spell, picking your nose, or shouting 'I love you, grandma'. No an attack, that's what you do.
 
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