D&D (2024) I like the new Warlock

[Reef]

Gotta love when folks with seemingly-opposed interests find common ground!

This is definitely what I’m going to suggest when the survey comes out. I know they don’t really look to the feedback for ideas, but I’m going to bring it up anyway. “Channel Patron” seems like a great alternative to Pact Magic in my opinion because it would make warlocks less short rest reliant, while still benefiting from short rests, and still feeling like cantrip-based casters with the occasional big splashy spell.

Yeah, that sounds good, and is likely to be my feedback as well (unless experimenting with the new version shows something surprising).

 

[Bolares]

Isn't that precisely what mistwell was saying though?

Good thing I wasn't replying to mistwell then

 

[tetrasodium]

I too really like the new warlock & said as much when I went over the packet. Changes present in warlock make me hopeful for the monk.

 

[Bolares]

A lot of people like the idea of the warlock, but don’t like the way the class actually plays. I feel similarly about rangers (in 5e D&D), and about Artificers as well. This is the unfortunate reality of a system where a class is both a narrative archetype and a set of play mechanics. Sometimes you like a class’s narrative identity but don’t like its gameplay function. But I think it’s valuable to have a variety of classes that play in different ways. Why can’t we let the people who like how the warlock plays have their fun?

But I like how the warlock plays, that's what I'm saying. I just never saw pact magic as the only/best way to do what the warlock wants to do. I find it punishing, DM dependant, it forces the whole group to make short rests... A lot of us don't think that the warlock shouldn't be defined by pact magic, even if we like the class.

 

[Charlaquin]

Patron Spell, sorry.

You can cast one of your prepared spells from this feature without expending a Spell Slot, and you must finish a Long Rest before you use this benefit again.

Oh! No wonder I couldn’t find it, I was looking under the base class features rather than the subclass ones.

Personally I would prefer that feature be on a short rest over a long rest, but I don’t think that would compensate for the significant loss of spell power from the change to half-casting. Also, once between short rests is much less reliable than twice.

 

[RoughCoronet0]

Like what you like!

That said, I'm just going to gently point out that there are a fair number of people who prefer the Warlock because it's not like the other casters, and the idea that the real problem with the Warlock is that it doesn't cast enough spells, you know, to be useful like a Wizard is anathema to us. Because it goes against the entire reason that we like the Warlock.

And that’s completely fair. As you say, Like what you like. I’m not against trying to find a different solution or compromise that gives more spell slots while allowing for the unique feel of pact magic (or something similar), despite my rather passionate sounding post earlier.

But it’s a bit frustrating and disheartening that if I or others say we like the changes that we must not be a warlock fan. It very much comes off that we should just be ignored and not bother contributing to discussions. I highly doubt that is the intended message but it comes across that way, especially as conversations in other threads have continued on.

 

[Charlaquin]

But I like how the warlock plays, that's what I'm saying. I just never saw pact magic as the only/best way to do what the warlock wants to do. I find it punishing, DM dependant, it forces the whole group to make short rests... A lot of us don't think that the warlock shouldn't be defined by pact magic, even if we like the class.

I don’t understand. You’re saying you like how the warlock plays, but describing the way it plays in purely negative terms. It sounds to me like you really don’t like the way the warlock plays, and you want the warlock to play in a different way that you would like more.

 

[Bolares]

The channel divinity comparison is cool. I'm not opposed to loosing the half-caster if you made pact magic recharging independent from short rests and more frequent. But I really love the other warlock features the new warlock gets (except for the stinker level 18 one), I'd really hate to see any of them go to protect pact magic.

 

[Bolares]

I don’t understand. You’re saying you like how the warlock plays, but describing the way it plays in purely negative terms. It sounds to me like you really don’t like the way the warlock plays, and you want the warlock to play in a different way they you would like it more.

I like the pacts, I like the invocations, I like eldritch blast, those all play really well and are what define the warlock to me. The only draw back is how pact magic works today.

 

[TwoSix]

Gotta love when folks with seemingly-opposed interests find common ground!

This is definitely what I’m going to suggest when the survey comes out. I know they don’t really look to the feedback for ideas, but I’m going to bring it up anyway. “Channel Patron” seems like a great alternative to Pact Magic in my opinion because it would make warlocks less short rest reliant, while still benefiting from short rests, and still feeling like cantrip-based casters with the occasional big splashy spell.

Yea, the idea has definitely grown on me since I suggested it yesterday. It's going to be one of my main points of feedback once the survey opens.

Honestly, the model of "2-4 uses per long rest, regain 1-2 uses per short rest" would be a pretty good default resource model across the system as a whole. Like, having full casters with a 2/2/2/2/2 progression at level 10, and recharging 1/1/1/1/1 every short rest is simple to understand and also pretty balanced, I'd say. (Assuming 2 SR per LR, of course.)