Immortals Handbook (aka The Worship Points System)

[poilbrun]

I'd say both. Some powerful being with ability to give 'power' easily gains followers and might become more powerful because of them.

And mortal being might gain divinity through having enough followers, and getting them to worship him. Though I'd think usually such persons have some sort of divane support for such ascension.

IMO depends on game world and nature of gods in it.

I was talking mainly about PC as I had read before that some powerful beings might become gods by themselves and then gain followers. I tend to agree with you about the fact that they'd need followers AND a sponsor to become gods, and that's probably the way it's going to be in my campaign, except if Upper_Krust tells me I'm completely mistaking!

Nice to know things are now truly proceeding. Btw, I will get both pdf (as long as company sharing it doesn't make that too complicated) and hardcover, whenever that will see light of day.

That's probably what I'm going to do too : buy the unillustrated version to print it and the illustrated one to read it on-screen, and buy the hardcover to put it in my collection next to my other books... Unless the illustrated pdf is not an update but a new version to buy. I don't mind paying 10-15$ for the unillustrated one and then 5$ for the update, but I wouldn't pay 10-15$ for the unillustrated version and then another 15-20$ for the illustrated one before buying the hardcopy for 30-40$...

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi poilbrun mate!

I was talking mainly about PC as I had read before that some powerful beings might become gods by themselves and then gain followers.

Generally these are 'spirit' deities though (Outsiders, Elementals).

I tend to agree with you about the fact that they'd need followers AND a sponsor to become gods, and that's probably the way it's going to be in my campaign, except if Upper_Krust tells me I'm completely mistaking!

Sponsoring is not totally necessary (unless you want to join a Pantheon, definately a good idea for young deities though)

That's probably what I'm going to do too : buy the unillustrated version to print it and the illustrated one to read it on-screen, and buy the hardcover to put it in my collection next to my other books... Unless the illustrated pdf is not an update but a new version to buy. I don't mind paying 10-15$ for the unillustrated one and then 5$ for the update, but I wouldn't pay 10-15$ for the unillustrated version and then another 15-20$ for the illustrated one before buying the hardcopy for 30-40$...

Unillustrated $10*
Illustrated $15*
Illustrated Upgrade $5* (this will have only the illustrated pages from the $15 version)
Hardcopy $30*

 

[poilbrun]

I was re-reading the old thread when a thought came across my mind : will it be possible, under the IH, for the god(s) to create a new world? It could be cool, as the "end" of a campaign (if a campaign can ever have an end when the characters are immortals), for the gods to create a new world and have the players create new characters in the world they just created! Of course, this could be done without rules, as the process mainly includes out-of-game thinking, but I think that, even if I or my players get tired of playing their god-characters for a while, we could start a new campaign with level one character in a world where the gods are their other characters and where no history is written since it is a newborn world...

Another question also crossed my mind : will you have an official website for the IH? It would be a nice way to distribute web enhancements and to advertise your work.

Last question (for today!) : will the hardcover book be exactly as the pdf, or will there be more materials in the hardcopy? A book I had purchased in pdf was recently published in hardcopy and I was sorry to see that there was more in the hardcopy book than in the pdf (which, IMO, show how some companies still consider pdf as inferior compared to hardcopy books, even if I can understand that they want to give a reason to those who bought the pdf book to still buy the hardcopy book).

That's it for now, bye!

Sorry for my last post, I talked about things you answered before, but it seems you posted your answer to Zelda while I was typing my message!

 

[Impeesa]

poilbrun: I think the reason extras are added to the print version of some products is simply the fact that they come out later, so if they think of something cool in the meantime they can still add it.

I hope Krusty doesn't chop too much from the IH, though. I don't want to be waiting for Volume VII at this time next year.

--Impeesa--

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi poilbrun mate!

I was re-reading the old thread.

I appreciate the interest!

when a thought came across my mind : will it be possible, under the IH, for the god(s) to create a new world?

Yes, but the size of such a world is dependant on the amount of energy (wp) invested.

It could be cool, as the "end" of a campaign (if a campaign can ever have an end when the characters are immortals)...

Not sure if such a campaign could have an end although if everyone reaches Time Lord status (almost inconceivable unless you play every day for a hundred years) you might want to think about starting again; then again I could always release the Time Lords Handbook!

...for the gods to create a new world and have the players create new characters in the world they just created!

Absolutely, I don't see why not.

Our campaign being Norse-centric we always planned to finish off with Ragnarok where Odin has told Thrin he is fated to meet his great uncle Graz'zt at the final battle...however I plan on beating him of course!

...and after that I'll have to somehow deal with this upstart Elder God Surtur before he sets the multiverse on fire.

Of course, this could be done without rules, as the process mainly includes out-of-game thinking, but I think that, even if I or my players get tired of playing their god-characters for a while,

One of the key fundamentals of this system is that it advocates playing as worshippers (I currently have a 1st-level Cleric of Thrin in a PBEM game run by S'mon - although I have been too busy to play this last month or so), servants and disciples; as well as the deities themselves. So you can punctuate ultra high level immortal play with the ventures and endeavours of followers and servants. At least 50% of our adventuring is done with worshippers/servants. So you get a new level of variety - this is one of the things that has kept our campaign fresh over the years.

Think of it as a game of chess where the deities physical manifestation is the queen and its its immortal soul is the king. If you ply the queen in battle you may have the upper hand but you also risk its demise - which then makes the king vulnerable.

In fact I think I will put just such an analogy into the Immortals Handbook.

we could start a new campaign with level one character in a world where the gods are their other characters and where no history is written since it is a newborn world...

Absolutely.

Another question also crossed my mind : will you have an official website for the IH? It would be a nice way to distribute web enhancements and to advertise your work.

I agree. I always planned to get a website going when I finished the work. Whether this will be a personal undertaking by me or in tandem with a publisher I don't yet know at this time.

Last question (for today!) :

will the hardcover book be exactly as the pdf, or will there be more materials in the hardcopy? A book I had purchased in pdf was recently published in hardcopy and I was sorry to see that there was more in the hardcopy book than in the pdf (which, IMO, show how some companies still consider pdf as inferior compared to hardcopy books, even if I can understand that they want to give a reason to those who bought the pdf book to still buy the hardcopy book).

At this point it is just too early to tell, especially considering the exact format of the .pdf has not yet been decided.

There may be minor or major changes, if the publishers (and I) think its for the best.

I don't view the pdf as inferior but during the interim between releases there may be elements we wish to add or subtract from the work, as such I can't honestly answer this question at the moment.

That's it for now, bye!

See you mate!

Sorry for my last post, I talked about things you answered before, but it seems you posted your answer to Zelda while I was typing my message!

No apology necessary - you know that!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Impeesa mate!

poilbrun: I think the reason extras are added to the print version of some products is simply the fact that they come out later, so if they think of something cool in the meantime they can still add it.

Absolutely.

I hope Krusty doesn't chop too much from the IH, though. I don't want to be waiting for Volume VII at this time next year.

I think once the first .pdf release is ready we will know more about how things will proceed regarding other formats.

 

[ùìéè äîáåê]

Shameless Bump

This is basically a bump, but while I am at it...

I am currently considering a campaign incorporating the element of paying with XP for any spellcasting, and it got me thinking on what kind of things Worship Points can and cannot be used for. U_k, while I realize you can't give me detail on this, can you tell me what the limits are generally? Can WP be used to replace XP for spells needing it? For magical item creation? Can they grant one the ability to cast (Divine ?!!) spells in the first place? And so on.

No, it's not a mjor issue, but since I wanted to bump up the thread...

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Shameless Bump

Hi ùìéè äîáåê mate!

This is basically a bump, but while I am at it...

I already mentioned this on the other thread - I don't mind the thread slipping. If someone has a legitimate question I am always eager to help but theres really no need for indiscriminate bumping.

I appreciate the support though!

I am currently considering a campaign incorporating the element of paying with XP for any spellcasting, and it got me thinking on what kind of things Worship Points can and cannot be used for.

Pretty much anything!

U_k, while I realize you can't give me detail on this, can you tell me what the limits are generally?

1WP = 1XP in most cases (not monster creation/modification).

eg. Casting a wish could cost you 5000 WP.

Can WP be used to replace XP for spells needing it?

Yes. Or material component costs.

For magical item creation?

Absolutely! They can affect XP, material costs and time taken.

Can they grant one the ability to cast (Divine ?!!) spells in the first place? And so on.

Yes.

You could create a 20th-level cleric out of thin air* if you wanted.

*well not exactly that easy...you'll see in the book.

 

[HeavyG]

Hi UK,

Sorry to hijack your thread. This doesn't really concern the WPS, but I asked that question on the main boards a week or two ago and didn't get any satisfying answer. If anyone whould know this, I expect it would be you...


Anyway, I'm creating a new PC for a high-level campaign (Rod of Seven Parts if you must know), a cleric/divine disciple of the Red Knight (a LN demigoddess of Battle, strategy and planning in the Forgotten Realms, which I suspect you might already know ) and I just hit on a hole in 3E outsiders.

I can summon outsiders that serve my deity with planar ally spells, but I can't figure out what would serve a LN deity. Good deities get all those celestials, evil deities could always be served by fiends. There's even Slaadi for the CN ones.

The only LN outsiders I can find are modrons and formians. You can see why it's not a viable (or fun) option.

It's especially important since I am a Divine Disciple and intend to have much interaction with said servants. They could give me advice or tasks to execute, etc...

For now, all we can think of are LN-converted deva (with different alignment-driven powers like Order's Wrath instead of Holy Smite etc...). Or possibly creating some servants as axiomatic humans with character classes. Do you have a better idea (even if it's from 1E or 2E) ?


(For that matter, there are also no true neutral outsider types, but that doesn't concern me so much right now.)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi UK,

Hey HeavyG mate!

Sorry to hijack your thread. This doesn't really concern the WPS, but I asked that question on the main boards a week or two ago and didn't get any satisfying answer.

Thats okay.

If anyone whould know this, I expect it would be you...

Appreciate the love, fire away!

Anyway, I'm creating a new PC for a high-level campaign (Rod of Seven Parts if you must know), a cleric/divine disciple of the Red Knight (a LN demigoddess of Battle, strategy and planning in the Forgotten Realms, which I suspect you might already know ) and I just hit on a hole in 3E outsiders.

I can summon outsiders that serve my deity with planar ally spells, but I can't figure out what would serve a LN deity. Good deities get all those celestials, evil deities could always be served by fiends. There's even Slaadi for the CN ones.

The only LN outsiders I can find are modrons and formians. You can see why it's not a viable (or fun) option.

It's especially important since I am a Divine Disciple and intend to have much interaction with said servants. They could give me advice or tasks to execute, etc...

For now, all we can think of are LN-converted deva (with different alignment-driven powers like Order's Wrath instead of Holy Smite etc...). Or possibly creating some servants as axiomatic humans with character classes. Do you have a better idea (even if it's from 1E or 2E) ?

My suggestion would be to use Inevitables (from Manual of the Planes), the LN sentient constructs.

This would seem to be especially appropriate for The Red Knight since they would look (for the most) like armoured warriors.

Many gods employ them as servants, as I recall many of the Indian Pantheon had Maruts as servants.

Incidently I actually was using the name Inevitables for almost exactly the same type of being in the (then) WPS almost a year ago - before Manual of the Planes was released. Annoyingly I had to drop that - its very doubtful anyone would believe I had the same idea!? I also had a True Dweomer called Miasma - but it appears Masters of the Wild has a spell called Miasma so...

(For that matter, there are also no true neutral outsider types, but that doesn't concern me so much right now.)

I would suggest using Elementals in place of True Neutral Outsiders perhaps?