Immortals Handbook Epic Bestiary (now available)

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

Okay, just a quick post to let you know I have finished all the changes needed, and its okay jmucchiello I know I have the license sorted now, so I won't need to email you, but thanks again for the advice.

The only thing I am not sure of at this point is whether or not Upper Planes is Product Identity or not? If it is, I can change it to Upper Realms later and then reload everything.

I am about to go out and do some very spartan christmas shopping, so if anyone knows about the Upper Planes question above let me know, otherwise I'll find out myself later.

I'll also edit this post with replies to any previous posts this evening.

You may want to note that one of the changes you made was that normally, the Atata template can only be added to a creature with a Constitution score.

Will do.

EDIT: Also, U_K, I notice that you seem to have split references between "Far Realm" and "Far Place". I've found roughly an equal number of each by doing a word search. Seems a tad confusing. Since I think you have a somewhat-credible case for using the "Far Realm" (in my opinion, which in all honesty isn't worth much), you may just want to go with that. Either way though, two names for one place does seem a bit too much.

I have them all changed to Far Place.

Also, U_K, a number of creatures (such as cometary dragons, cogents, etc.) seem to be space-dwellers. However, their creature type (Outsider, Aberration, etc.) states that they need to breathe. How do they survive there then?

Sorted. Thanks for the feedback mate!

Whilst producing the transuranic dragon, the Gold Within Gold Dragon, I was forced to come up with a new mechanic for its scales...

Gold within Gold Dragon is a great sub-name.

Omnipresent gaze attacks function as normal gaze attacks, save that creatures within range must attempt a saving throw during their turn AND on the gazing creatures turn, and the gazer may not actively attempt to use its gaze as an attack action. Such effects are appropriate for gaze attacks who either do not require eye contact to activate, only being seen, or beings with so many eyes that there is no real difference between seeing the gazer and making eye contact with it.

What do you think?

It reads a tad complicated for my tastes.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Well "planes" can't be anyone's IP, and neither can the notion that heaven is up and hell is down. I wouldn't invent a private vocabulary to replace terms like "upper planes" and "lower planes".

As for the Far Realm/Place- how about giving it a one-word name like "Outside" or "Beyond"? I kinda like the latter; pseudonatural critters can be called "beyonders". If you use the former, you could refer to them as "true outsiders" to distinguish them from creatures that aren't from the prime.

I was talking to UK about Sandalphon's gender bending ray, and UK says that Sandalphon could also give gender to a genderless creature. I wonder it Sandalphon might actually have invented sex. Perhaps someone who is better versed in occult lore could confirm or deny this? Otherwise I can't see why anyone would have ever attributed this power to this particular angel.

 

[jmucchiello]

Why would that impede you from wanting to purchase it though?

Because even though it is esoteric, it also means that since I find it impossible to separate your OGC from your non-OGC, I can't reuse your material in my own works. And as a publisher I prefer clean OGC to closed or "annoying to figure out if it's open" content.

Well, like I said, I was just wanting to have one product out there, to have something to show for myself and then, talk to publishers about future products.

Well I didn't 'acquire' it as much as I...did it all myself.

But was it fun? That's the important part.

Regarding legal stuff, would you mind if I emailed/private messaged you to double-check I have 6.0 sorted properly this time.

Well I'm glad you didn't. Pointing out problems in a forum is one thing, giving solicited legal advice is very much another. I would have turned you down since I can't legally give you legal advice.

The only thing I am not sure of at this point is whether or not Upper Planes is Product Identity or not? If it is, I can change it to Upper Realms later and then reload everything.

Still this isn't legal advice, but you should read legal.rtf in the SRD to determine what is or isn't WotC PI. I don't know how you are reffering to Upper Planes, but are you sure you don't actually mean "a good aligned plane". See the SRD entries for non-native outsiders for examples of unnamed outer planes.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

...by the way I got that book Cheiromancer mate - you know the one you sneaky devil.

Well "planes" can't be anyone's IP, and neither can the notion that heaven is up and hell is down. I wouldn't invent a private vocabulary to replace terms like "upper planes" and "lower planes".

I'll just leave it then.

As for the Far Realm/Place- how about giving it a one-word name like "Outside" or "Beyond"? I kinda like the latter; pseudonatural critters can be called "beyonders". If you use the former, you could refer to them as "true outsiders" to distinguish them from creatures that aren't from the prime.

I have just decided to make it all The Far Place. I quite like the sound of that, and its meant to represent the (true) Abyss/Place of Failures.

Outside is too close to Outsiders, and its just far away from, rather than outside the lower dimensions.

Beyond, would be better attributed to the Higher Dimensions. But I don't think I would be able to get away with Beyonders...you are not very familiar with Marvel Comics I would hazard a guess at?

I was talking to UK about Sandalphon's gender bending ray, and UK says that Sandalphon could also give gender to a genderless creature. I wonder it Sandalphon might actually have invented sex. Perhaps someone who is better versed in occult lore could confirm or deny this? Otherwise I can't see why anyone would have ever attributed this power to this particular angel.

I can chat to Aleister Crowley later and ask him...better versed indeed.

Because even though it is esoteric, it also means that since I find it impossible to separate your OGC from your non-OGC, I can't reuse your material in my own works. And as a publisher I prefer clean OGC to closed or "annoying to figure out if it's open" content.

I'll see what I can do.

I should have the new version sorted in about 2 hours time.

But was it fun? That's the important part.

Before I did it, no. I was too worried I was just going to make a total mess of everything. But the more pictures I did the happier I became, so in retrospect yes, it was fun.

Well I'm glad you didn't. Pointing out problems in a forum is one thing, giving solicited legal advice is very much another. I would have turned you down since I can't legally give you legal advice.

Thats understandable mate, sometimes its better to work these things out yourself rather than relying on others anyway.

Still this isn't legal advice, but you should read legal.rtf in the SRD to determine what is or isn't WotC PI. I don't know how you are reffering to Upper Planes, but are you sure you don't actually mean "a good aligned plane". See the SRD entries for non-native outsiders for examples of unnamed outer planes.

I'll check it out shortly and see exactly what it says.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

Just to let you know that the product has been updated and those who have purchased should have the new version available for download. It has all the errata found so far fixed, the bookmarks, the proper d20 licenses and the d20 logo on the cover.

I'm off to sort out RPGNow.

To jmucchiello: I looked over my library of d20 products and could not find one that had a different closing definition of product identity than mine, so with no reference to guide me in that respect I simply had to keep the same sentence.

Although for what its worth the Immortals Handbook Epic Bestiary doesn't use any third-party material (just from WotC as per the OGL).

 

[Alzrius]

Hey U_K,

Some material I wanted to post regarding the Cogent:

It has "damage reduction 50/epic, lawful and mindless". What exactly is the "mindless" requirement?

The "minds eye" special quality should be "mind's eye".

It has regeneration 50. However, nothing is listed insofar as to what causes lethal damage, then. I'm guessing this should be fast healing 50.

The cogent should have a total of 34 feats. While there are that many listed currently, the Multi-Attack feat (correctly spelled Multiattack), is a bonus feat, and so doesn't count. What's more, you have Power Attack listed twice. So, you should delete the redudant Power Attack and add two feats.

Also, I'm not certain why you have the Multiattack feat listed for the Cogent at all; its full attack listing is 40 bites, all as primary natural weapons (which is fine), meaning that there are no secondary natural weapon attacks for the Multiattack feat to reduce penalties for.

Also, I thought it'd be cool to make a psionic version of the Cogent, since they seem naturally inclined that way. Attached is the Word document with the entry for the Psionic Cogent. It also includes the psionic versions of the Automatic Metamagic Capacity and Metamagic Freedom epic feats. I hope you approve and enjoy!

Also, thanks for the update! I'm downloading it right after I'm done here!

EDIT: A few things now that I've looked at the edited version, U_K. One, I love the bookmarks! However, I do wonder if you might think about bookmarking the new magic item properties, artifacts, epic spells, etc. Those are things people can easily lift, so they'll want to be able to zoom in on them.

Also, I see you dealt with the issue about the Cogent's DR. However, the line on that reads a bit strange. Shouldn't it instead say "The cogent's damage reduction protects it against natural attacks from sentient creatures or intelligent weapons." since "non-epic and natural attacks from sentient creatures" seems to imply that epic natural attacks from sentient creatures would overcome the DR, which it wouldn't.

Also, the Adaption power might require some clarification; you may want to add that they don't take damage or penalties from any natural environment, just to be safe. Also, while you added that to the Adamic dragon qualities, the Nehaschimic dragons still need it.

Also, the Legendary template should say that it also adds the Extraplanar subtype.

Other than that though, great job!

EDIT AGAIN: I've removed the Word file here for the Psionic Cogent. Instead, there's a link to its entry in the d20 NPC Wiki further down.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Gold within Gold Dragon is a great sub-name.

Atomic number 158!

It reads a tad complicated for my tastes.

My basic goal is to allow them to automatically make 'active' use of the gaze attack to affect very large groups of people by moving across them. No, I think I can fix this.

 

[jmucchiello]

To jmucchiello: I looked over my library of d20 products and could not find one that had a different closing definition of product identity than mine, so with no reference to guide me in that respect I simply had to keep the same sentence.

We were talking about the last line of your declaration of open gaming content, not PI. And if that line is in your entire library, your library must consist solely of products by only one or two companies (other than WotC whose products don't claim OGC). Try looking at the Unearthed Arcana declaration. Simple. A ten-year old could go through the book with a highlighter and cross out all of the non-ogc in the book with 100% accuracy. Your declaration would stymie most IP lawyers. That is the heart of the esoteric debate.

IMO, you can probably (although without reading the book I can be sure) replace the comma after "and new material (orichaicum)" with a period and drop the rest of the sentence without affecting what is or is not OGC in your book.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

Hey U_K,

Hiya mate!

Some material I wanted to post regarding the Cogent:

Now you tell me.

It has "damage reduction 50/epic, lawful and mindless". What exactly is the "mindless" requirement?

Non-intelligent. Zero intelligence score.

The "minds eye" special quality should be "mind's eye".

Those apostraphes will be the death of me.

It has regeneration 50. However, nothing is listed insofar as to what causes lethal damage, then. I'm guessing this should be fast healing 50.

True, it should be fast healing so that it doesn't regenerate lost tentacles.

The cogent should have a total of 34 feats. While there are that many listed currently, the Multi-Attack feat (correctly spelled Multiattack), is a bonus feat, and so doesn't count. What's more, you have Power Attack listed twice. So, you should delete the redudant Power Attack and add two feats.

Also, I'm not certain why you have the Multiattack feat listed for the Cogent at all; its full attack listing is 40 bites, all as primary natural weapons (which is fine), meaning that there are no secondary natural weapon attacks for the Multiattack feat to reduce penalties for.

Okay.

Also, I thought it'd be cool to make a psionic version of the Cogent, since they seem naturally inclined that way. Attached is the Word document with the entry for the Psionic Cogent. It also includes the psionic versions of the Automatic Metamagic Capacity and Metamagic Freedom epic feats. I hope you approve and enjoy!

Thanks that looks great, I'll put a link on my website next time I update.

Also, thanks for the update! I'm downloading it right after I'm done here!

EDIT: A few things now that I've looked at the edited version, U_K. One, I love the bookmarks! However, I do wonder if you might think about bookmarking the new magic item properties, artifacts, epic spells, etc. Those are things people can easily lift, so they'll want to be able to zoom in on them.

I'll see what I can do for v1.3.

Also, I see you dealt with the issue about the Cogent's DR. However, the line on that reads a bit strange. Shouldn't it instead say "The cogent's damage reduction protects it against natural attacks from sentient creatures or intelligent weapons." since "non-epic and natural attacks from sentient creatures" seems to imply that epic natural attacks from sentient creatures would overcome the DR, which it wouldn't.[/QUOTE]



Also, the Adaption power might require some clarification; you may want to add that they don't take damage or penalties from any natural environment, just to be safe. [/QUOTE]

Also, while you added that to the Adamic dragon qualities, the Nehaschimic dragons still need it.

Nehaschimic Dragons have all the powers of Adamic Dragons except where noted.

Also, the Legendary template should say that it also adds the Extraplanar subtype.

Indeed.

Other than that though, great job!

Thanks for the feedback mate.

My basic goal is to allow them to automatically make 'active' use of the gaze attack to affect very large groups of people by moving across them. No, I think I can fix this.

I thought that was how gaze worked anyway.

We were talking about the last line of your declaration of open gaming content, not PI.

Thats what I meant, just a slip of the tongue.

And if that line is in your entire library, your library must consist solely of products by only one or two companies (other than WotC whose products don't claim OGC).

Well I do have a lot of Sword & Sorcery stuff to be fair... :\

Try looking at the Unearthed Arcana declaration. Simple. A ten-year old could go through the book with a highlighter and cross out all of the non-ogc in the book with 100% accuracy. Your declaration would stymie most IP lawyers. That is the heart of the esoteric debate.

IMO, you can probably (although without reading the book I can be sure) replace the comma after "and new material (orichaicum)" with a period and drop the rest of the sentence without affecting what is or is not OGC in your book.

I'll do that with Version 1.3.

Okay, I tried to upload Version 1.2 to RPGNow last night, but there was a bit of a mix up on the password side of things. However this presents the opportunity for a v1.3 where I can tweak the most recent pieces of errata and finally fix the OGC declaration.

One thing I am curious about though, when I update the product do people just get sent an email from ENWorld telling them there is an updated version available for download? Is that the way it works?

 

[Alzrius]

Non-intelligent. Zero intelligence score.

And for the most part, what you have there makes sense, save for the "non-epic" mention of the DR line. As an aside, there's a big difference between being mindless (having no Intelligence score) and having a 0 Intelligence (which isn't truly mindless).

True, it should be fast healing so that it doesn't regenerate lost tentacles.

The growing them back in a day (mentioned under "birthquake") notwithstanding, since that's too slow to be a form of regeneration as d20 has it.

Thanks that looks great, I'll put a link on my website next time I update.

I just updated that for an error that I'd made. The psionic cogent had too many power points before. It's fixed now. I'll update it again for the tweaks you make to the cogent for v.1.3.

I'd have posted it on Feiari's wiki, but I wasn't sure how to make a new entry there. If it'd work better for you, you can just cut-and-paste the entire thing onto your website; a surprisingly large amount of people don't use Word (or Word-based applications), so that might work better.

Nehaschimic Dragons have all the powers of Adamic Dragons except where noted.

That's not what it says. It says they have all the traits of epic dragons, not adamic dragons.

I thought that was how gaze worked anyway.

The way gaze attacks normally work is that each character facing a gaze-attack monster must make a save on their turn. On the monster's turn, it can deliberately gaze at a character as a standard action, forcing that character to then make another save.

One thing I am curious about though, when I update the product do people just get sent an email from ENWorld telling them there is an updated version available for download? Is that the way it works?

An email isn't sent (or at least, I don't get one). Rather, the next time you go to "My ENGS Account" (your bookshelf), the tag that usually reads "download" has changed to "*updated" letting you know that there's a new version available.