Is a retro-clone the right game for me?

[TheAuldGrump]

Though Savage Worlds tends to get polarized reactions - those who like it really like it, those who don't like it hate it.

Me, I'm one of the ones who hates it. I like something that is a bit less simplistic, and the weird science rules - the main reason I got the darned game - just treated weird science exactly like magic. I treated Savage Worlds just like a virus, and deleted the PDF from my computer.

So, be warned - you may find that it is the perfect game for you, or you may not. Either way, the PDF is cheap, so you may want to take the gamble, even if it does turn out that you really don't like the game much, you won't be that much out of pocket.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Did I just say 'Try this, I hate it'?... Right up there with 'I think this milk is sour, here, taste it'.... But unlike the milk, you may like it.

 

[S'mon]

Dark Dungeons is the retro-clone of Rules Cyclopedia D&D and is apparently pretty nifty.

If you want a unified mechanic, well the true clones are no more unified than the games they clone. The obvious choice would be C&C with its unified d20-roll-high SIEGE system. But I believe that Lamentations otFP also uses a d6-based unified mechanic for task resolution, based on the d6-based systems in Moldvay B/X (eg STR checks were d6 based). LotFP is not a dungeon-crawl game though, it's a "weird tales" game.

Personally I use OSRIC and ignore the bits I don't want*, like the initiative system, while using d20-roll-under-attribute for task resolution. You can get the same effect with Labyrinth Lord + LL: Advanced Edition Characters. LL+AEC costs three times as much in print as OSRIC, but the art-free pdfs are free.

*Although OSRIC already leaves out most of the bits of 1e AD&D I don't like.

 

[clip]

Savage Worlds:

...is hardly a retro-game of any kind. It's an alternative to the current systems, and kind of a stripped-down, suped-up GURPS with 40% of the intelligence taken out. I love it.


Labyrinth Lord:

...seems a bit pointless to me. It really is almost a clone in every sense, down to the font and punctuation. One player I know who really likes it said that it has a place because Erol Otus Red Box is OOP. I would counter that by saying that a lot of people still have their Red Box rules, and that its relatively easy to get hold of one if you need to.


Castles & Crusades:

....is simply to me what 2e should have been.

 

[Shades of Green]

The Basic Fantasy Role-Playing Game (BFRPG) is, in my experience, an excellent old-school D&D-type game. While very similar to B/X D&D, it is not a direct clone of B/X D&D, but rather a new game inspired by it. Among the innovations (or, rather, modern sensibilities) built into BFRPG are ascending AC, universal ability score modifiers and the separation of race from class.

The game itself is very easy to run and even easier to prep for, and you could probably prep a whole dungeon level in less than an hour. The rules are very simple and easy to learn even for beginners, too.

BFRPG is also free of charge as a PDF and cheap as a POD product through LULU. Also, there is a significant number of free PDF supplements for BFRPG available from the main BFRPG web-site.

 

[Votan]

I do have the Rules Cyclopedia, so it's sounding more and more like I ought to consider just using that. Is there anything that the others bring to the table that "cleans up"/"fixes"/whatever the RC? Or should I just worry about one of the clones as a way of protecting my precious and refer to it on the off-chance I need to?

Protecting a non-replaceable book is one of the better reasons to use a retro-clone. In my experience, all of the retroclones seem to make some decisions that are different but the tweaks tend to be ones of style more than anything else. Older school D&D was very flexible to house rules and a few interesting ones seem to make it into each version.

 

[Imperialus]

Protecting a non-replaceable book is one of the better reasons to use a retro-clone. In my experience, all of the retroclones seem to make some decisions that are different but the tweaks tend to be ones of style more than anything else. Older school D&D was very flexible to house rules and a few interesting ones seem to make it into each version.

Yes, this. My Tuesday group is running B/X + with a lot of stuff cherry picked from AD&D and we refer to labyrinth lord and OSIRIC all the time just to preserve our old books. Of course it helps that the 1st ed books were built like tanks.

 

[Jack Daniel]

My Engines & Empires setting might be of use to you. It takes Labyrinth Lord as its core rules, but then expands it into something very much like a slimmed down Rules Cyclopedia, with classes that go up to 36th level, a skill system, some (much, much simpler) rules for dominions and mass combat, and several sub-systems tweaked or streamlined.

The downside is that my setting is very specific in what it's trying to do, which is basically to mash up Tolkien, Final Fantasy, and fairy tales in a Victorian steampunk setting. But you could still ignore all of my extra setting fluff and steampunk crunch, and just strip the tweaked game rules out of it. Apply liberally to Labyrinth Lord or Dark Dungeons, mix well, and see if it works for you.

 

[Grimstaff]

One player I know who really likes it said that it has a place because Erol Otus Red Box is OOP. I would counter that by saying that a lot of people still have their Red Box rules, and that its relatively easy to get hold of one if you need to

I should point out the Erol Otus cover is the "purple box" or "B/X", which is what Labyrinth Lord clones, whereas "red box" is the Elmore cover Mentzer Basic set (yes, there are some big differences, at least to fans of B/X and LL).

I'd recommend OP check out Swords & Wizardry or Microlite 20. Swords & Wizardry is probably more different that what you think about, when you think "D&D", than any of the other clones. It has kind of a unique dark, pulp Swords & Sorcery vibe that you don't get as strongly in other rulesets, and makes an excellent "pinboard" for your own houserules and modifications.

 

[Rel]

Please allow me to introduce you to Old School Hack!

I've become quite the fanboi so pardon my enthusiasm but I think this sound like almost exactly what you are looking for. It is trying to capture the same general feel of "Red Box Basic D&D" but using different, unified mechanics that promote fast, fun game play with plenty of room for creativity.

It is being put together by ENWorlder Kiznit and is based on another game called Red Box Hack (which, ironically, didn't use the actual red box classes). It was the funnest game I played at GenCon and I played some REALLY fun games at GenCon!

I would strongly encourage you to download and read through the playtest documents. It is completely playable now but there are a few small tweaks and typos yet to be ironed out. If you like what you see and have any questions or comments I'd encourage you to post them at the OSH forums at the linked website.

 

[darjr]

RetroRoleplaying: The Blog: Searchers of the Unknown One Page RPG: The Many Variants

One page of rules. There are more if you want to use them.

A typical old-school D&D module stats list for a monster
looks like this: (AC6, MV9’, HD 1, hp 4, #AT1, D1-10 by
halberd). The idea is that, if it’s enough for monsters, it
should be enough for PCs too. This light-rule system enables
to play these modules in that way.