Just saw Logan (spoilers)

[Morrus]

So it's not in the "Marvel universe" as referred to by Garamal immediately previous. It might be the best recent movie from a Marvel property, but it's not part of the defined Marvel Cinematic Universe. It's possible the people in charge of the MCU will look at *Logan* and make a few adjustments, but their movies have been doing alright as is.

I understood it. I didn't see why it mattered to Garamal's opinion. He didn't like several recent Marvel movies. That might have been X-Men Apocalypse, it might have been Amazing Spider-Man 2, it might have been Dr Strange. Who made each film doesn't affect whether he liked it or not.

 

[trappedslider]

Because as a nerd/geek it's natural to be nit picky about such things....

 

[Morrus]

Because as a nerd/geek it's natural to be nit picky about such things....

"No True Scotsman" shouldn't be used as a weapon to dismiss how somebody felt about a movie.

 

[trappedslider]

"No True Scotsman" shouldn't be used as a weapon to dismiss how somebody felt about a movie.

I think you misunderstood, I wasn't invalidating his feelings about the movie. I read his statement to say that Logan was part of the MCU which it isn't. At no point did I say he was wrong for liking it above other movies. I simply said it wasn't part of the MCU as currently defined.

In fact if you would be so kind as to point where in this statement

Logan isn't part of the MCU, it's part of the X-Men movies put out by Fox.

I dismissed his opinion.


Now if he meant all of the movies that are done with Marvel Properties IE characters and such by Marvel Universe than I clearly misunderstood.

 

[Nellisir]

I understood it. I didn't see why it mattered to Garamal's opinion. He didn't like several recent Marvel movies. That might have been X-Men Apocalypse, it might have been Amazing Spider-Man 2, it might have been Dr Strange. Who made each film doesn't affect whether he liked it or not.

I'll echo what trappedslider says above. I in no way am questioning or dismissing his opinion of the film in and of itself. Whether or not Logan is part of the MCU is not, however, an opinion. It's not even an "alternative fact".

If someone had made this statement: Actually I was disappointed with the last few D&D adventures but when I read the adventure Strange Aeons I thought it was the best adventure in D&D universe, for now) Hope they'll continue in the same manner and their adventures will be only better., would you consider making any clarifications?

Edit: I was tempted to use War of the Burning Sky as the example but thought it might bias your response.
Edit-Edit: Damnit man, hurry up and answer our what-if, yes-but questions!! I'm pretty sure the fate of the internet really does depend on it...this time! For realz!

 

[Morrus]

I'll echo what trappedslider says above. I in no way am questioning or dismissing his opinion of the film in and of itself. Whether or not Logan is part of the MCU is not, however, an opinion. It's not even an "alternative fact".

If someone had made this statement: Actually I was disappointed with the last few D&D adventures but when I read the adventure Strange Aeons I thought it was the best adventure in D&D universe, for now) Hope they'll continue in the same manner and their adventures will be only better., would you consider making any clarifications?

Strange Aeons is not a D&D adventure. Logan *is* a Marvel movie. Whether it's your preferred brand of Marvel movie is not relevant to his point. "Clarifications" don't add to his point in any way - whatever studio, director, actor, or boom operator was involved - that he didn't much like some recent Marvel movies. There's no way in hell one can argue that a Spider-Man flick is not a Marvel movie.

 

[Nellisir]

Strange Aeons is not a D&D adventure. Logan *is* a Marvel movie. Whether it's your preferred brand of Marvel movie is not relevant to his point. "Clarifications" don't add to his point in any way - whatever studio, director, actor, or boom operator was involved - that he didn't much like some recent Marvel movies. There's no way in hell one can argue that a Spider-Man flick is not a Marvel movie.

The Marvel (Cinematic) Universe is a very clearly defined thing, like D&D. Logan, and all the X-Men and Deadpool movies, (and Fantastic Four), are Marvel properties but they are not "in" the Marvel universe of films and tv shows. And I certainly can argue that all Spider-Man films released so far are not part of the Marvel universe. Again, Spider-Man is a Marvel property, but no Spider-Man film released so far has been part of the Marvel universe.

Edit: Beyond the fact that Woverine and the X-Men are Marvel properties, there's no standing to argue that Logan *is* a Marvel movie. Marvel Studios had no control over the film, and it's not part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It's a movie by Fox, based on a property owned by Marvel, but made without their input. Kinda like how Strange Aeons is an adventure based on a system derived from D&D and licensed from WotC, but made without their input....

 

[Morrus]

The Marvel (Cinematic) Universe is a very clearly defined thing, like D&D. Logan, and all the X-Men and Deadpool movies, (and Fantastic Four), are Marvel properties but they are not "in" the Marvel universe of films and tv shows. And I certainly can argue that all Spider-Man films released so far are not part of the Marvel universe. Again, Spider-Man is a Marvel property, but no Spider-Man film released so far has been part of the Marvel universe.

Spider-Man is part of *a* Marvel universe. Just not the one you've decided to talk about, for some reason. To what end are you making this distinction? He was was clearly talking about Marvel movies as a whole. Like people talk about, say, British movies, or gangster movies, or Bond movies, or Spielberg movies. All of which involve multiple studios or directors or actors or caterers.

If I say I didn't like many recent Spielberg movies, is it really necessary to jump up and point out that some of them had a different boom operator? So Fox provides the money for some of them, and some other studio provides the money for some others. How does that affect his point in the slightest? He didn't like some recent Marvel movies, whoever did the catering.

 

[Nellisir]

Spider-Man is part of *a* Marvel universe. Just not the one you've decided to talk about, for some reason.

Yeah, it's a mystery why anyone would talk about the Marvel Cinematic Universe after a reference to a film in the "Marvel universe".

To what end are you making this distinction? He was was clearly talking about Marvel movies as a whole.

So far 2/3rds of the respondents have assumed he was talking about the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which is a not at all arbitrary distinction and logically related to both his topic and word choice, and 1/3rd have not. So, maybe his intent wasn't so clear as you make it out to be...or it was, but not how you took it.

Like people talk about, say, British movies, or gangster movies, or Bond movies, or Spielberg movies.

Or superhero movies, or comic book movies. Unfortunately, he didn't say any of that. He said "best film in Marvel universe".

All of which involve multiple studios or directors or actors or caterers. If I say I didn't like many recent Spielberg movies, is it really necessary to jump up and point out that some of them had a different boom operator? So Fox provides the money for some of them, and some other studio provides the money for some others. How does that affect his point in the slightest? He didn't like some recent Marvel movies, whoever did the catering.

Neither the caterer nor the boom operator are analogous to the studio, which provides direction and focus to the film line as a whole. There are at least three "guiding" factions in superhero movies today - Marvel, Fox, and WB. If OP wanted to conflate them under the umbrella of superhero movies that's one thing, but his phrasing and word choice suggest otherwise.

Edit: And just to be clear on my intent, I thought he should address his feedback to the appropriate parties. If he wasn't clear on the distinction, we'd briefly clarify the situation. It's exactly the same circumstance clarifying the OGL, GSL, or d20 License.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Wow, a lot of nitpicking over whether Marvel Universe or Marvel Cinematic Unvierse are the same thing and whether pointing out one or the other invalidates an opinion or not. I think it's reasonable to clarify what was meant, but it doesn't change the essence of what was said much, does it?


I took from the post he really liked the movie. I liked it, too.

Since this a spoiler thread:

I didn't like the Logan clone so much, but I am not sure I would have liked any other Mutant, he would have needed more time to be introduced, and that would have taken from the character stuff that actually mattered in the movie. At least the Logan clone didn't need more backstory than it got.

The scene with Wolverine at Charles "funeral" was heart-breaking. Overall the movie managed to be very emotional on top of some brutal action.

The kid was fantastic and worked amazingly well in this trio. If they pick her up for a Kids-X-Men type movie in a similar style, I'd be fine with that, but it's also not neccessary. The movie works well on its own.