Living Supers - General Discussion Thread

[Stormwind]

The M&M 2E core book says falls have a damage bonus of +1 per 10 feet, maxing out at +20 (at 200 or more feet) for a DC of 35 (since damage/Toughness saves start at a base of 15, not 10). After that, a character's reached terminal velocity and doesn't fall any faster. (See also Speed of a Skydiver.)

No mention of it being capped/limited by PL.

Thanks, that was just what I was looking for.

No mention of that in any books, either. I do know the default in D&D is that, if you teleport into an object, you're shunted out to the nearest open space which is big enough to hold you, and you take damage based on how far you were shunted (for Dimension Door, 1d6 points if you had to move 100 feet, 2d6 if you had to move 1,000 feet, and if there's no empty space within 1,000 feet of the target, you take 4d6 damage and the spell ends without you going anywhere).

I'm familiar with the D&D default for teleportation into solid objects, but since I didn't recall anything in the M&M books, I was wondering if it was mentioned somewhere but that I had just missed it, or if it just wasn't mentioned in the M&M books. Not having the books at the moment does make it harder to check

I don't have my book, but I remember that you can only teleport somewhere where you can see, which mean you can't teleport behind a wall, execpt if that wall is made of glass, and you can never see in the wall (except for glass, but then, I don't remember any ruling).

I tell that by memory, and I migth be wrong, but you should take a look at the power description.

I don't have access to books at the moment but I understood that you could teleport anywhere that you could accurately perceive. For example having some sort of super senses with the accurate power feat could allow you to teleport through solid structures.

Edit:I was just looking at long distance teleportation, and once you get past rank 5 of teleport (5 miles long range), there is simply no way that you can accurately see where you are teleporting to. This is much more apparent in the case of rank 9+ teleport at which stage you can teleport anywhere on earth. Thus I would argue that you do not need to see where you are teleporting to, but rather you simply need to know where you are teleporting to.

Which reminds us that M&M is an effects-driven system, so if you want to teleport people into objects and either hurt or immobilize them, you'd also need to buy linked versions of Strike (with Penetrating) and Snare (thus making the "teleport a foe into a wall" similar to what Kitty did to Juggernaut in X-Men 3 -- he was stuck 'till he burst his way out) along with your Teleport. (Yes, I know that's not how Kitty's power works in the comics, but for this instance, it's a good illustration.)

The fact that M&M is entirely an effects-driven system is something that somehow slipped my mind on this one. A very good point (and a great illustration).

'Course, you could just do the "Tele-Drop" (as presented in Instant Superheroes) -- grab some foe (standard action), teleport straight up (move action), drop the foe (free action) and teleport back to safety (assuming you've got the Turnabout power feat). Do remember, though, that Falling is always Lethal damage.

I've already considered the "Tele-Drop" scenario. Actually my approach to this is slightly different: Teleport with the Affects Others, Attack, and Range [Perception] extras. This then requires a Reflex save from a target within Perception range, which if failed will result in the target being teleported straight upwards (in this case), which will be followed by a Toughness save for falling damage. The advantage with this approach being that you don't need to get into melee, specifically with Brick type opponents. Of course, you pay heavily for it, but ...

 

[rgordona]

I've already considered the "Tele-Drop" scenario. Actually my approach to this is slightly different: Teleport with the Affects Others, Attack, and Range [Perception] extras. This then requires a Reflex save from a target within Perception range, which if failed will result in the target being teleported straight upwards (in this case), which will be followed by a Toughness save for falling damage. The advantage with this approach being that you don't need to get into melee, specifically with Brick type opponents. Of course, you pay heavily for it, but ...

I am fairly sure I remember a ruling about speed of falling which was pretty slow. So teleporting someone straight up leaves them plenty of time to do something about it, like get rescued by a flier :> (I also thought that exemptions applied for bricks with super leaping etc, they just say "well I can jump that high so I brace my knees and land on my feet.") It is pretty mean on a speedster though.

(Atomic think Tank is still down and i have not checked my books so the accuracy of the above is based on my memory only.)

 

[Stormwind]

I am fairly sure I remember a ruling about speed of falling which was pretty slow. So teleporting someone straight up leaves them plenty of time to do something about it, like get rescued by a flier :> (I also thought that exemptions applied for bricks with super leaping etc, they just say "well I can jump that high so I brace my knees and land on my feet.") It is pretty mean on a speedster though.

(Atomic think Tank is still down and i have not checked my books so the accuracy of the above is based on my memory only.)

I think you might be right about super leaping, ... if they can do a high jump that high. I seem to recall a suggestion on ATT that in such a case you should take the distance you fall and subtract the height you can high jump. The remaining distance is then treated as normal falling distance.

Speedster's usually have fairly decent reflex saves and so may be able to avoid being teleported at all.

There are several limitations to using teleportation (i.e. Tele-Drop) as an attack form, particulary against flying characters. Characters with sufficiently high ranks in super leaping are also not so suseptible. However, it can make for an interesting attack style for a teleport themed character and if it works, then it works well.

 

[Hand of Vecna]

It's certainly not a perfect attack -- useless against fliers and other teleporters, and it won't do much harm to most Bricks. And the attack form is hard to target a Speedster with. But, even against fliers, teleporters and bricks, it can at least take them out of a fight for a round or so, which can buy your teammates valuable time.

 

[Malthusian]

You could teleport a flying opponent toward a wall, the ground, or one of their teammates; use some variation of the Knockback rules for Damage, and Slam Attack, if teleported into a teammate.

 

[Stormwind]

It's certainly not a perfect attack -- useless against fliers and other teleporters, and it won't do much harm to most Bricks. And the attack form is hard to target a Speedster with. But, even against fliers, teleporters and bricks, it can at least take them out of a fight for a round or so, which can buy your teammates valuable time.

Actually it's not useless against other teleporter's unless they are able to teleport as a reaction (+2 extra). For example, if falling speed was 100ft per round (see Steve Kenson's ruling on ATT for precise clarification ... when ATT is back up), then if you only teleport them 100ft, then they cannot act before they hit the ground.

As far as hurting bricks, imagine two PL10 characters, one being a teleporter and the other a brick. Consider the teleporter to have Teleport 10 with the Attack and the Range [Perception] extras. Assuming the brick has maximized it's toughness with a +5/-5 tradeoff, the brick can have a toughness save of +15. On the other hand the teleporter's attack requires a DC20 reflex save. Assumming the brick fails the save (since we are considering what damage this can do to a brick), the brick then needs to make a DC35 toughness save (the teleporter can teleport the brick 1000ft, but falling damage is capped after 200ft at +20L). Thus if the brick rolls a 20 on his toughness save, then he takes no damage, however on a roll of 10-19 he will take injury, on a roll of 5-9 he will be disabled, and on a roll of 1-4 he will be dying. Considering that this is against a simple brick optimized for toughness, I would say that it is pretty effective.

Of course this is all moot against any character with Flight 1+ or reactive teleport, and much more limited against characters with super leaping. Naturally other things may also come into play such as immunity to lethal damage, or sufficient levels of impervious. Thus if it works then it works well, and as mentioned above, at least it can take your opponents out of the fight for a round or two.

You could teleport a flying opponent toward a wall, the ground, or one of their teammates; use some variation of the Knockback rules for Damage, and Slam Attack, if teleported into a teammate.

In addition if you use the power feats Change direction and Change velocity with the teleport, you could do some interesting things in terms of sending people into teammates or solid objects. I'm not entirely sure what rules should then be used but it does make teleport more interesting against flying characters.

 

[Velmont]

But here a way to make teleport nice attack that use already existing rules, without getting annoyed with new ones:

Snare: Teleport some matter around your enemy. That could also apply to someone teleported into some matter, supposing the teleported creature is teleported and replace the matter, creating an hole. The hardness of the material where the creature is stuck in cannot be higher than the snare power, as the rank in snare is what it is use for hardness of the snare. If tehmaterial is weaker, use the material hardness.

Blast: Just teleport away form the character some flesh.

Suffocate: Teleport the air around the target

Trip: If you can switch teh direction of someone, you teleport him where he is, but on his back...

But to be able to do these thing, you need to buy them with alternate power.

 

[Hand of Vecna]

Which takes us back to the "M&M is an effects-driven system"

 

[Stormwind]

But here a way to make teleport nice attack that use already existing rules, without getting annoyed with new ones:

Snare: Teleport some matter around your enemy. That could also apply to someone teleported into some matter, supposing the teleported creature is teleported and replace the matter, creating an hole. The hardness of the material where the creature is stuck in cannot be higher than the snare power, as the rank in snare is what it is use for hardness of the snare. If tehmaterial is weaker, use the material hardness.

Blast: Just teleport away form the character some flesh.

Suffocate: Teleport the air around the target

Trip: If you can switch teh direction of someone, you teleport him where he is, but on his back...

But to be able to do these thing, you need to buy them with alternate power.

Nice suggestions for attacks. I had already considered Snare, Blast, and Trip as alternate powers with a teleport descriptor, but I hadn't thought about Suffocate before. That would be perfect as a subtle attack. I guess I'm still exploring the possibilities

Which takes us back to the "M&M is an effects-driven system"

Exactly. In fact that's one of the main things that drew me to M&M ... it all about flavour and style.

 

[Salix]

I was reading through a number of the old threads and noticed several of the old proposals. However I couldn't find any centralized listing of all the proposals, including what has been passed, withdrawn or declined. I have noticed that several proposal's have been decided for or against, but simply do not have the votes to officially close the proposal (particulary in the case of NO votes).

To clarify things for myself, I created the following list, however I thought that perhaps others would be interested and thus have posted it here. Note that the only proposals that I have marked as having passed are those with 3 YES votes.

• Proposal - Living Supers/M&M - Proposals for the Origin [3 Bront's World & 3 Adjusted timeline] (Proposed: 10-05-05; World & timeline approved)
• Proposal - UN Available Gear, Transportation, and Resources [4 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 10-28-05; Passed)
• Proposal - Stacking Attacks Limitation [4 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 11-12-05; Passed)
• Proposal - Time Tracking [2 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 11-21-05)
• Proposal - Power Level Tade-off Limits [1 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 11-23-05)
• Proposal - Probability Control Power [3 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 12-17-05; Passed)
• Proposal - The Training Room (Discussion) [0 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 05-18-06)
• Archive - Game Master Rewards [3 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 05-19-06; Passed)
• Proposal - Nullify (Affects Objects) [2 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 07-16-06)
• Proposal - Fix for Boost [0 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 08-02-06)
• Proposal - Resolute PR Department [0 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 09-15-06; Withdrawn)
• Proposal - Ultimate Power [0 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 09-16-06)
• Proposal - Enhanced Traits [0 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 09-23-06)
• Proposal - New Extra: Knockback [0 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 09-23-06)
• Proposal - New Power Feat: Knockback [0 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 09-23-06)
• Proposal - Targeted Areas [0 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 09-23-06)
• Proposal - Task Force Informational Database [3 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 10-25-06; Passed)
• Proposal - Proposal: 2 New Feats [0 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 12-18-06)
• Proposal - Power Feat: Variable Descriptor (from UP) [0 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 01-08-07)
• Proposal - Mastermind's Manual - Skill Challenges [1 YES | 0 NO] (Proposed: 01-29-07)

Any chance the judges could get together and makes some votes on these? We're doing worse than Congress