D&D 5E Monk subclass homebrew - Way of the Vengeful Wave

[Chabachava]

Hi!
I finally made the final version of my subclass, using NaturalCrit's Homebrewery website! Here's the link to see it!
http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SkWRtVHFVG

I leave here the older version, in case you prefer that one to the newer one I made! Enjoy!


This is my first try at making a subclass and I must first of all thank my DM Daniel Leroux for his help. I wasn't satisfied with the options the player handbook gave me, so I went ahead and "created" this subclass (this is more about putting together pieces of other subclasses than actually creating something entirely new). My main idea was to create a type of monk that would be an evasive tank applying crowd control to it's enemies, while keeping a certain offensive edge to his defence.

By the way, I would like to also thank HalfMetalJacket for his Way of the Empty Mind creation. Very special thanks to Lalliman and Composer99 from the Giant in the Playground website for their phrasing advices!! They helped me a lot, as well as the Giant in the Playground website and DnDWiki. Links will be at the end of the post.

It took me a few months, but I think the final result is fairly balanced (I'll let you be the judge of that, however). I'm open to changes and I welcome every constructive comments, as it is the main reason I'm posting this here. So, if you have any question, go ahead! And if you test it, let me know what you found out about it!

Way of the Vengeful Wave

Monks of the Vengeful Wave are evasive and unforgiving. Just like water, their objective is to be formless, adapting themselves to the situation and returning their foes' strength against themselves. Soft and hard, full and empty, mind and body, these monks are ever-changing, flowing like a mighty river.

White Crane Spreads its Wings -
You've learned to take advantage of your opponents' mistakes. Beginning when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, whenever you are benefiting from your Patient Defense feature, if a creature within 5 feet of you misses you with a melee weapon attack, you can spend 1 ki point and use your reaction to make an unarmed strike targeting the triggering creature with advantage. In addition, provided your unarmed strike hits, you can choose to apply one of the following effects:
The target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or be knocked prone.
The target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be pushed 15 feet away from you.
The target must succeed on its choice of a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check or it becomes grappled by you, as if you used the Grapple special attack on it.

Moreover, beginning at 11th level, whenever you use this feature, you can spend up to 2 ki points to make two unarmed strikes, each against a separate triggering attack. Beginning at 17th level, you can instead spend up to 3 ki points to make three unarmed strikes, each against a separate triggering attack.

Know yourself, Know Your Enemy... -
After many years of meditation, you learned more about your own and other people's body. You can now spend 1 minute in or out of combat to watch your enemy's techniques. The DM tells you if the creature is your equal, superior, or inferior in regard to two of the following characteristics of your choice: Strength score; Dexterity score; Constitution score; Armor Class; current hit points; total class levels (if any); monk class levels (if any). In addition, you no longer need to spend ki points to use Patient Defense.

... And Victory Will Be Assured -
Starting at 11th level, you can use your action to provoke creatures hostile to you if they are within 30 feet of you and can see or hear you. An affected target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw, using your ki saving throw DC, or it has disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you until your next turn.

Vengeful Wave -
At 17th level, as an action, you can spend 4 ki points to strike the ground, creating a powerful wave that bursts from your space in a 30-foot radius. Each creature caught in the wave must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, the target takes 10d8 bludgeoning damage, is pushed 30 feet away from you and knocked prone. On a successful save, the target takes half as much damage and is not knocked prone nor pushed.

Way of the Empty Mindhttps://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/49nyrg/5e_homebrew_monk_tradition_way_of_the_empty_mind/
DnDwiki Homebrew Archetypes http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/5e_Archetypes
Monk Class 5e + Way of the Open Hand https://open5e.com/classes/monk.html
Fighter Class 5e + Battle Master http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Fighter

 

[Chabachava]

I'm thinking of changing the level 6 feature for something more unique. I think I'd keep the ki cost feature but change the battle master thingy for this : a free (as in, no ki cost) +1 bonus to AC for [your Wisdom modifier] rounds, usable once per short rest. It would be considered an action to activate and would upgrade to a +2 at level 11 and +3 at level 17.

What do you guys think about that?

 

[Monkplayer]

I've played so many monks from 3-4 different RPG systems, that I've lost count (read my username). Maybe I can offer some useful edits, and ideas.

First edit your font color in your original post. It's very hard to read, and this will hopefully get you more feedback.

I like your character concept, and I think it has some advantages not explored currently by D&D5e, so well done. Here are some changes to consider.

1) White Crane Spreads it Wings. I can't believe I'm typing this because I LOVE using grapple, but "The target must succeed on its choice of a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check or it becomes grappled by you, as if you used the Grapple special attack on it." This third choice really complicates this ability. What if the players has chosen the Grappler feat. Can he now pin the opponent? What if the opponent is 2 categories sizes larger?
Adding advantage at third level is over powered.

"And Victory Will Be Assured -
Starting at 11th level, you can use your action to provoke creatures hostile to you if they are within 30 feet of you and can see or hear you. An affected target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw, using your ki saving throw DC, or it has disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you until your next turn." Provoke it to do what? If it's already hostile then it's already provoked. This ability needs to be triggered or used by some other catalyst or action. It doesn't make sense. You stating the ki Wisdom saving throw, but what if the monk doesn't have any ki left? Why isn't the monk using a ki point then?

Know yourself, Know Your Enemy... this is underpowered for a (assuming 11th level?) 11 level ability. The cleric can use at 6th level as an action, Channel Divinity, read thoughts. I like you don't need patient defense, but (I've played similar abilities) it does get old doing the defensive role (not roll) at the start of almost every combat.

Vengeful Wave
"On a successful save, the target takes half as much damage and is otherwise unaffected. " Are they still prone on a save? It needs to be stated.

I hope the suggestions help, and I look forward to your reply.

 

[Chabachava]

Hi Monkplayer!
First of all, thank you for your feedback! I'll make some of the changes you mentioned and will answer to your questions in a few hours, maybe tomorrow! See you then!

 

[Monkplayer]

It's always exciting and encouraging to see gamers enjoying the monk class.

 

[SkylarkR6]

I have to agree with monkplayer on the advantage at 3rd being a bit much when they already have disadvantage to hit you. Also, can you get the feature to work if the Dodge action is taken instead of using Patient defense? It feels like you might be a bit ki starved before 6 if not. Liking the concept of counterpuncher though.

 

[Chabachava]

Hi!
Alright so, I included advantage to the counter, thinking that way of the open hand gets an additional 2 attacks with its flurry of blows and a rider effect (prone, push, etc.), whereas the WotVW only gets a counter if the adversary misses (assuming it will attack you, maybe it won't). So I thought spending 2 ki points (one for patient defence and one for the counter) at a low level in one round is a pretty big deal and missing an attack would probably just feel frustrating.
[MENTION=6923205]SkylarkR6[/MENTION]

You would indeed probably be ki starved if you spend all your turns in patient defence and countering, hence the need for playing a bit more strategic. The player should ask himself if he/she should play defensive or offensive at this point of the battle. For example, my character and 2 buddies were ambushed by thugs and my monk had to be on the defensive, so he only spent 1 ki to stay in patient defence and didn't use the counter, until one of his allies made the boss go prone, at which point he spent another ki point to make a flurry of blows (had to play offensive at that moment)

TLR : With this subclass, the player must play more strategic and use his/her ki points at the right time in the right situation.

The good thing about ki is that it all comes back with a short rest. Of course, the frequency of short rests depends on the DM and the campaign setting, but generally speaking and if one plays smart, ki shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Good question for the dodge action, I never thought about that! I would say no, for the same reason you wouldn't get the advantages of a flurry of blows by doing a normal attack action.
[MENTION=6701408]Monkplayer[/MENTION]
As for WCSW, for the grappler feat, I'm not an expert of that field, but I know you need an action to pin someone down, so you'd have to wait to your turn to do so (Note : it will make you and the creature become restrained, so careful with that). Talking about grapple and knowing you love it, do you know about the Grappler's Manual? If not, I'd highly recommend you read this! ktkenshinx is amazing! http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...ppler-s-Manual-(2-0)-Grappling-in-5th-Edition
I once talked with my DM about the grapple effect and he suggested to restrict it to maximum 2 size larger than the monk.

KYKYE is underpowered, I agree and maybe not as appealing as a class feature as I'd like it to be. The role-play feeling to it is however very interesting : I'm imagining a martial art master observing his/her adversary's techniques, looking for flaws. It is a level 6 ability, compared to a battle master fighter getting this at level 7, which I guess is not a big deal. I suggested another feature instead : a free (as in, no ki cost) +1 bonus to AC for [your Wisdom modifier] rounds, usable once per short rest. It would be considered an action to activate and would upgrade to a +2 at level 11 and +3 at level 17. I feel it might be overpowered however so any ideas is welcome!

The goal of VWBA is to tip the scale in making adversaries attack the monk. As for the ki saving DC, I'm not exactly sure I understand what you mean. Do you mean there should be a ki cost associated with the feature?
The monk uses an action (therefore freeing the bonus action for a patient defence), so there is no need for a trigger here (unless you're talking about VWBA, which in this case could be considered a trigger? I'm confused )

About Vengeful wave, good point, I'll modify it to mention that with a successful saving throw, you won't be prone!

 

[SkylarkR6]

Ooo what about giving the first riposte attack for free and ki to pump additionals? Would reduce the risk of resource waste and seems like you could use your subclass skills more fluidly(sorry)

 

[Chabachava]

No problem SkylarkR6 this is why I've posted my subclass in the first place, to get suggestions!
Ruling out the ki cost could be an idea, but I would certainly need to tone down the ability, probably by getting rid of the rider effect (prone, etc) and the advantage roll. The good thing about this idea is that it would make the subclass much more simple to use : you use patient defence, you get a counter-attack and that's it. I'll think on it but for now, I'm satisfied with the complexity of the class!

 

[Chabachava]

Hi! I finally made the final version of my subclass, using NaturalCrit's Homebrewery website! Here's the link to see it! http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SkWRtVHFVG