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Noble Core Class
- Thread starter Bront
- Start date
DungeonmasterCal
First Post
I'll be pimping...er...using this from now on:
http://wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_templates_page.htm
http://wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_templates_page.htm
Bront
The man with the probe
DungeonmasterCal said:
I saw that, didn't care for how the template worked, liked it better as a seperate class. Lowly nobles might only take a few classes in it, and obviously not all nobles are of the Noble class. This is more for PC Nobles who want to accent their noble background more than any other class will allow them to.
Kid Charlemagne
I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator
I didn't care for the template either, but it does occur to me that perhaps a series of feats might be a way to go, starting with something like the "Favored in House" feat, and moving on to feats granting greater and greater temporal power. They'd be unusual feats in that they'd have a caveat that the DM must approve their being taken by any given PC.
One of the reasons this seems like a good idea is that "noble" is a fairly wide open archetype. It includes ladies-in-waiting, and it includes knights in shining armor. It includes court fops and scholars. I also like the "aristocrat" name, because that makes it open to non-noble individuals who are essentially identical to nobles (rich guild merchants, etc).
One of the reasons this seems like a good idea is that "noble" is a fairly wide open archetype. It includes ladies-in-waiting, and it includes knights in shining armor. It includes court fops and scholars. I also like the "aristocrat" name, because that makes it open to non-noble individuals who are essentially identical to nobles (rich guild merchants, etc).
Bront
The man with the probe
Kid Charlemagne said:
True, and I like the idea of GM control, but I wanted to make a class that covered this fairly well, and making them feats limits character concepts a bit. I like how this works in general because of the flexibility in the special abilities, and you can take or ignore them as needed (and take just normal feats instead).
The aristocrat NPC class is ok, but it is designed for NPCs, and PCs loose out on it quite a bit. This basicly tweeks the class a bit to make it PCable, and I feel it balances fairly well with the other classes (Though, I'm weighing the wealth ability/mechanic). I'll compair it to the rogue and fighter (Were it's sort of between).
Fighter: Lower HD, 2 more SP, more Skill selection, lower BAB, 1 more good save, less initial weapon/armor selection, less feats, a few special abilties.
Rogue: Higher HD, 4 less, less skill selection, same BAB, 1 more good save, better armor selection, but similar weapon selection, similar feat/special ability granting (powers at every level, some selectable, generaly similar in power)
I think it compairs fairly well.
Perhaps if it had a different name, because it still could work for many other non-noble aristocratic characters. Maybe just the PC Aristocrat.
Bront
The man with the probe
I'm going to bump this thread up again, given I'm hoping to play one, and see if anyone has any other input into the class. I've general recieved positive feedback in it's current form, and my only real complaint is that it feels like there should be a few more unique special abilities to select, though with all the extra feats out there, this realy isn't a huge problem with the class.
Spatzimaus
First Post
Missed this one the first time around.
IMC, we improved the DMG Aristocrat class to fill this niche. They basically became the nonmagical counterpart of Bards. And, it wasn't so much "nobility" as "someone coming from a privileged background".
If I remember right (I'm at work), they were changed like this:
> Can't be Chaotic alignment (to mirror Bards)
> At level 1, select a Background, such as Nobility, Merchant, Church, or Underworld. This basically represents where you have your connections from, and will modify later class abilities.
> Gain the Favor ability at level 2. It's identical to the Favor ability from d20Modern, except that instead of Action Points you can use it only once per week. Add anywhere from +2 to -2 depending on how close the favor is to your Background; if you're a Merchant and you're trying to convince the local noble to knight you, that's -2, but convincing the local blacksmith to sell you the mithril breastplate he's holding for another customer is +2.
> Wealth at level 3: gain a constant income. I don't remember the amount, but it scaled with level. You can also purchase appropriate items and services at book price from your organization; for instance, someone with a Church background could show up at their church and buy scrolls and potions even if they otherwise wouldn't sell.
> Gain a half-strength Leadership (no Cohort, but the full number of Followers) at level 4. Only Aristocrat levels count towards the leadership score for this. If the character takes Leadership later on, the amounts stack.
The types of followers will depend on your Background, but few are actually fighting troops; a Nobility background gives you the servants needed to manage an estate, a Merchant gives the employees for a business, a Church gives the minor priests and staff of a church, and an Underworld gives the network of informants, petty thieves, etc. (You could hire people without this ability, but you'd have to pay and they wouldn't be as loyal.)
> At 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, pick some Inspiration abilities. Some of the abilities themselves are identical to the d20Modern Charismatic hero abilities (Coordinate, Inspiration, etc.), and tend to focus more on helping large groups than individuals. They are (Ex), not (Su), and there's no limit on number of uses per day.
IMC, we improved the DMG Aristocrat class to fill this niche. They basically became the nonmagical counterpart of Bards. And, it wasn't so much "nobility" as "someone coming from a privileged background".
If I remember right (I'm at work), they were changed like this:
> Can't be Chaotic alignment (to mirror Bards)
> At level 1, select a Background, such as Nobility, Merchant, Church, or Underworld. This basically represents where you have your connections from, and will modify later class abilities.
> Gain the Favor ability at level 2. It's identical to the Favor ability from d20Modern, except that instead of Action Points you can use it only once per week. Add anywhere from +2 to -2 depending on how close the favor is to your Background; if you're a Merchant and you're trying to convince the local noble to knight you, that's -2, but convincing the local blacksmith to sell you the mithril breastplate he's holding for another customer is +2.
> Wealth at level 3: gain a constant income. I don't remember the amount, but it scaled with level. You can also purchase appropriate items and services at book price from your organization; for instance, someone with a Church background could show up at their church and buy scrolls and potions even if they otherwise wouldn't sell.
> Gain a half-strength Leadership (no Cohort, but the full number of Followers) at level 4. Only Aristocrat levels count towards the leadership score for this. If the character takes Leadership later on, the amounts stack.
The types of followers will depend on your Background, but few are actually fighting troops; a Nobility background gives you the servants needed to manage an estate, a Merchant gives the employees for a business, a Church gives the minor priests and staff of a church, and an Underworld gives the network of informants, petty thieves, etc. (You could hire people without this ability, but you'd have to pay and they wouldn't be as loyal.)
> At 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, pick some Inspiration abilities. Some of the abilities themselves are identical to the d20Modern Charismatic hero abilities (Coordinate, Inspiration, etc.), and tend to focus more on helping large groups than individuals. They are (Ex), not (Su), and there's no limit on number of uses per day.
smootrk
First Post
Nobles from different settings would have vast differences.
In the medieval society, most male nobles would have been essentially warrriors with a balance of social and custom skills (hunting, jousting, ettiquette, heraldry, tactics & commander skills, etc). Women would have been at the most commoners with a few skills thrown in (craft sewing, ettiquette, and the like)... disclaimer: not meant to be any sort of commentary on women rights or lack there of historically.
In japanese culture the samurai makes a good base to start from, although there were also non-military officials who had significant power. I would probably just base them off of bards or rogues with different class skill sets, focusing mainly on communication skills, ettiquette, languages, calligraphy, and the like instead of Open locks & trap skills.
Greek style nobility would be either military based or the 'enlightened thinker' type.
Viking nobility might very well be a barbarian warrior type.
Middle-eastern based cultures would have very different models to work from, but I am lacking insight in that area.
IMO it may be better suited to have nobles be simply a leveled class in whatever the setting/culture is normal, with a template that adds or modifies class skills and/or special abilties in subtle ways to reflect the additional powers and backgrounds that the noble may have access to.
I don't guess that helps much with your class posted above, and it really all depends on your campaign setting and the cultures there.
In the medieval society, most male nobles would have been essentially warrriors with a balance of social and custom skills (hunting, jousting, ettiquette, heraldry, tactics & commander skills, etc). Women would have been at the most commoners with a few skills thrown in (craft sewing, ettiquette, and the like)... disclaimer: not meant to be any sort of commentary on women rights or lack there of historically.
In japanese culture the samurai makes a good base to start from, although there were also non-military officials who had significant power. I would probably just base them off of bards or rogues with different class skill sets, focusing mainly on communication skills, ettiquette, languages, calligraphy, and the like instead of Open locks & trap skills.
Greek style nobility would be either military based or the 'enlightened thinker' type.
Viking nobility might very well be a barbarian warrior type.
Middle-eastern based cultures would have very different models to work from, but I am lacking insight in that area.
IMO it may be better suited to have nobles be simply a leveled class in whatever the setting/culture is normal, with a template that adds or modifies class skills and/or special abilties in subtle ways to reflect the additional powers and backgrounds that the noble may have access to.
I don't guess that helps much with your class posted above, and it really all depends on your campaign setting and the cultures there.
Last edited:
Nyaricus
First Post
hello everyone,
sorry to get a little off the main topic here, but something i have been toying with is simply a line of a few feats that make you a "Nobleman/Noblewomen" but i ahvent worked on that at all lately (races have been a biggy as of late). Elaborating on what smootrk said before, in a medieval society such as europe had, the Fighter class is actually a nobleman. the best weapons, armours, etc were only availiable to them. it is in fantasy gaming and arthurian legend that the nobleman is a social butterfly, with courtly skills, etc. When the crusades started up, the average young noblemen had been trained for all his life in the "art" of war, and they rushed off to fight infidels and the such (mainly because in many christian areas, the popes at the time had forbidden inter-aristocratic bickering/fighting, but infidels were not on that list).
So, if you were to want a true representative of an average European Noble, take the fighter class, cut his feats in ahlf, and give him a few abilities from the list you have, give him a few (very few) extra skills, and 4 skills+Int per level. but that is my humble (and, after taking a look at this thread; spur of the moment) opinion. Take it of leave it, but mabye my info (and smootrk's) will help you with this.
sorry to get a little off the main topic here, but something i have been toying with is simply a line of a few feats that make you a "Nobleman/Noblewomen" but i ahvent worked on that at all lately (races have been a biggy as of late). Elaborating on what smootrk said before, in a medieval society such as europe had, the Fighter class is actually a nobleman. the best weapons, armours, etc were only availiable to them. it is in fantasy gaming and arthurian legend that the nobleman is a social butterfly, with courtly skills, etc. When the crusades started up, the average young noblemen had been trained for all his life in the "art" of war, and they rushed off to fight infidels and the such (mainly because in many christian areas, the popes at the time had forbidden inter-aristocratic bickering/fighting, but infidels were not on that list).
So, if you were to want a true representative of an average European Noble, take the fighter class, cut his feats in ahlf, and give him a few abilities from the list you have, give him a few (very few) extra skills, and 4 skills+Int per level. but that is my humble (and, after taking a look at this thread; spur of the moment) opinion. Take it of leave it, but mabye my info (and smootrk's) will help you with this.
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