Noble Core Class

[Nifft]

IMHO, a class should represent stuff that cannot be represented by other classes, or by other mechanics (multi-classing, skills & feats, for most PC classes).

So, a "half-Fighter" would not appeal to me -- just take some Fighter levels if that's what you want.

Thus, the "Noble" or "Aristocrat" should be exactly and only the stuff that's not possible to get via multi-classing, skill choice, & feat choice.

-- N

 

[Bront]

I think the Noble class does that as well, tough it does allow you to overlap on a few other classes in some ways, but most classes do that to a point. I'm playing one now, and it seems to be well balanced, and so far has fit the character quite well. I've been having trouble getting people in my games to give it a try (They're affraid it doesn't have enough combat options to interest them )

 

[Nyaricus]

IMHO, a class should represent stuff that cannot be represented by other classes, or by other mechanics (multi-classing, skills & feats, for most PC classes).

So, a "half-Fighter" would not appeal to me -- just take some Fighter levels if that's what you want.

Thus, the "Noble" or "Aristocrat" should be exactly and only the stuff that's not possible to get via multi-classing, skill choice, & feat choice.

point taken for that, i wasnt really coming from a gaming POV, more of a factual POV.

I dont mind that a "fighter", in truth, would not be like the PHB fighter > thast why we play these games, to escape reality in one way or another. And thats okay. But i was just stating that in truth, the fighter class in D&D is more than a little "noble-born". That aside, i haev no problem with a Noble class in my game; a sort of charismatic leader or whatever. The other stuff is just my opinion

 

[KikuNoMaru]

I think this class is kind of broken. The skills seem fine - same goes for most of the abilities, but the fact that he can swap out one of his special ability for a feat - any feat, just seems too powerful. Sure fighters get lots of feats and such, but they have to be from the fighter bonus feat list.... If you look at almost any other class that gains bonus feats, its either a select list (1 or 2, as per monk) or its every 5 levels.

I might have misread the special ability part, or missed something, but as I read it, that's a pretty killer ability.

 

[Cabral]

A Noble class from somewhere (d20 star wars? dragonlance?) had the nifty ability to add class skills. If I recall, it was only one at a time but I think it added more as levels progressed. And, I think it's other abilities were fairly similar to what you are proposing. I think your special ability should be only takeable once or only grant 1 bonus class skill and/or have a list class skills you can take.

After all, Use Magic Device is very nice as a class skill ...

 

[Bront]

I think this class is kind of broken. The skills seem fine - same goes for most of the abilities, but the fact that he can swap out one of his special ability for a feat - any feat, just seems too powerful. Sure fighters get lots of feats and such, but they have to be from the fighter bonus feat list.... If you look at almost any other class that gains bonus feats, its either a select list (1 or 2, as per monk) or its every 5 levels.

I might have misread the special ability part, or missed something, but as I read it, that's a pretty killer ability.

Well, what are the killer non-fighter feats that are broken by this?

The idea is that the Noble is flexable because their training is. A noble from a magical family may end up taking metamagic feats, but then is dual classing. A Fighter feat? Why not be just a fighter? A skill feat? Those are generaly considered underpowered. A special other feat? Well, is the feat more powerful than the ability you might otherwise choose?

Keep in mind, the Rogue, in addition to many of their other powers, gets a bonus feat or power every 3rd level (10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th I believe) and that is not limited, and they are still getting sneak attack, as well as tons of skill points. The nobles regular powers are much less broad, and generaly limited to social situations.

Not getting one at 1st realy negates the bonus, as the class doesn't realy give you anything else much fantastic. No spells, no ton of skill points, no uber-cool combat skills, just an average BAB and 2 good saves, and the occasional bonus to either influence or coordinate, neither of which are extremely powerful or unbalancing powers.

I do appreciate the input, but a fighter has more going for it than the feats, with their high BAB, D10 HD, and extra armor and weapon proficiencies which the Noble can only match by sacrificing one of their feats for. And even if they do, they're then 2 feats behind, a HD down, and one level of BAB back.

Also, there is some GM fiat involved in a noble. Where is he from? If he's adventuring, is he more at risk because of his status? Are there some feats he can't take with his noble training because they're not available to him? Is his influence effective here?

I have't seen it throw anything off durring play yet.

 

[Bront]

A Noble class from somewhere (d20 star wars? dragonlance?) had the nifty ability to add class skills. If I recall, it was only one at a time but I think it added more as levels progressed. And, I think it's other abilities were fairly similar to what you are proposing. I think your special ability should be only takeable once or only grant 1 bonus class skill and/or have a list class skills you can take.

After all, Use Magic Device is very nice as a class skill ...

Yes, there are some aspects of the D20 Starwars (which is a 3.0ish class) and the dragonlance noble in this, but I thought those classes were grossly underpowered compaired to a straight fighter or bard (which is pretty bad). If I remember right, you can select a skill at 1st level as a class skill. You might aslo be talking about it from the Wheel of Time D20.

Again, GM fiat says not everyone needs to be able to access all skills, but what's preventing a player from taking 1 rank in rogue, bard, sorcerer, cleric, or wizard, and then they have it as a class skill anyway (even if they have to buy it at CC prices). Plus, anyone can buy it cross class anyway, so is allowing it as a class skill doesn't change that much, particularly for a high charisma character.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Yes, there are some aspects of the D20 Starwars (which is a 3.0ish class) and the dragonlance noble in this, but I thought those classes were grossly underpowered compaired to a straight fighter or bard (which is pretty bad). If I remember right, you can select a skill at 1st level as a class skill. You might aslo be talking about it from the Wheel of Time D20.

Again, GM fiat says not everyone needs to be able to access all skills, but what's preventing a player from taking 1 rank in rogue, bard, sorcerer, cleric, or wizard, and then they have it as a class skill anyway (even if they have to buy it at CC prices). Plus, anyone can buy it cross class anyway, so is allowing it as a class skill doesn't change that much, particularly for a high charisma character.

I would beware of the bonus feat--you might want to think about restricting it to General or Fighter feats only. Otherwise, you could see scary things with those weird descriptor feats, like the [Warforged] and [Shifter] feats from Eberron, where the character is able to pull up a huge number of them.

The following comes to mind:

Play Noble and use every ability for a Warforged feat, and heck, take the 1st Warforged Fighter sub level for another one, then take Reforged up to the 2nd-to-last level, then take the last Reforged level at level 21, replacing all your gobs and gobs of [Warforged] feats with [Epic] feats thanks to Reforged's crazy ability to switch out for feats you qualify for now.

 

[Bront]

I guess I could add in the description no racial feats which would prevent that.

And yes, that particular example is odd, but you're A) talking about epic rules which I don't use B) A Warforged Noble? Possable, but unlikely, at least in the current Eberron setting.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I guess I could add in the description no racial feats which would prevent that.

And yes, that particular example is odd, but you're A) talking about epic rules which I don't use B) A Warforged Noble? Possable, but unlikely, at least in the current Eberron setting.

Even if you don't use epic and switch out all those Warforged feats, the fact remains that the Warforged (and Shifter) feats are extremely potent, particularly with enough mixing and matching. The speed of gaining an any feat, equivalent to a Fighter save the first level, can be particularly problematic. Let's say we have a Warforged who's already taken 2 levels in Fighter (using a substitution level for the first one to get another Warforged feat). If he's willing to pay 1 BAB and a minor HP loss that is offset by his racial Con bonus, he can take 4 levels in Noble and get the two Noble abilities, more skills, two Warforged feats, and a +4 to both of his bad saves, the Fighter's Achilles Heel (better than taking Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes). Or if he didn't want a Warforged feat, he could even take the same two Fighter feats he was going to take.