D&D 5E Not convinced yet... but

[BoldItalic]

@OP

You might care to explain how a 1st-level Fighter with the Dual Wielder feat achieves a Str of 20. To get a feat at 1st level he would have to be a variant human, which allows +1 to each of two different abilities. You can allocate one of those points to Str, but even if you are rolling dice for abilities the most you can get is 18+1 = 19. You can't have 20.

So at best, you have a Str of 19 which gives you +4 on damage. With the Dual Wielder feat and Two-Weapon fighting style, you can attack with two longswords for 1d8+4 damage on each. That's 2d8+8 damage per round, assuming both attacks hit.

Suppose you are fighting an ordinary city guard (AC16). Your attacks are at +6 (+4 for Str Adj, +2 for Proficiency Bonus) so each attack has a 55% chance of hitting and your average damage per round would be around 9. The guard has 11 hp, so on average it will take you two rounds to drop him. Two rounds is about all combats typically last in 5e.

If you don't bother with the feat and use two shortswords, your average damage is only marginally less and you can still drop the guard in about 2 rounds. That's why feats are optional. You don't actually need them.

 

[TwoSix]

All the points I made in the other thread aside (I'm the guy who said casters should exploit weaknesses AND I made fun of you for agreeing with yourself, so I'm glad I made an impression!), I do tend to agree that wizards are kind of dull at low levels, and especially at level 1. If you know the game is going to go from 1 up to a high level, I would say a 1 level dip would make you feel a whole lot better about the character (I suggest cleric or fighter). Personally, I only like playing wizard if the game starts above level 3, and preferably above 5.

 

[pdegan2814]

Obvious math errors of your post aside, the fighter should always out-damage you over the course of the day. That's basically all they have in this edition. No matter how much damage they throw at something, it's not going to let them fly, or speak with the dead, or turn invisible or any of the other utility options you have. Wizards are the swiss army knife that can change their superpowers every day. That should never exceed a single use tool in the tool's field.

Also bear in mind that the game really isnt balanced at levels 1-3, because those are meant to go by in a couple of sessions, with you probably hitting level 2 partway through your 1st session.

This brings up a key point that the original poster definitely seems to be ignoring. He seems to be basing the value of the class solely on its ability to deal damage in combat. Wizards are very specifically designed for versatility, not brute force. Fighters are designed to be in combat, hence they do it better than anyone else.

 

[Shendorion]

I'm amused to note that you complained about having to roll to hit with the wizard, but you're figuring your lv. 1 fighter DPR assuming you hit twice per round, every round.

You're right about class balance being off at level one though. As a wizard that makes for a rough session or two, for sure! Mind you, that TWF fighter will fall behind a great weapon fighter at lv. 5 and never catch up, and if the wizard is still rolling against AC and taking away hit points at that level, he's doing combat all wrong.

If all you want is to bounce around a battlefield doing SICK DEEPS, just be a great weapon fighter. Start strong, stay strong, and glower at people while the rest of the party does the stuff that isn't fighting. We can all have fun!

 

[Istbor]

Yes, "if". That's why he needs to list the particulars of his build, not just "I made a dual-wielding Fighter". That doesn't tell us squat. Do we even know if the character in question is Level 1?

Well, to be fair, this is a continuation of another thread he made about how Wizards in 5e are under-powered. There is a bit more detail in that OP than in this one. I believe he does state a few things about it. Not sure how you can get 20 str on a level one Human at all however.

 

[pdegan2814]

I'm amused to note that you complained about having to roll to hit with the wizard, but you're figuring your lv. 1 fighter DPR assuming you hit twice per round, every round.

You're right about class balance being off at level one though. As a wizard that makes for a rough session or two, for sure! Mind you, that TWF fighter will fall behind a great weapon fighter at lv. 5 and never catch up, and if the wizard is still rolling against AC and taking away hit points at that level, he's doing combat all wrong.

If all you want is to bounce around a battlefield doing SICK DEEPS, just be a great weapon fighter. Start strong, stay strong, and glower at people while the rest of the party does the stuff that isn't fighting. We can all have fun!

Like the Dex-based TWF fighter with light armor that has a much better chance at not being detected, is probably going earlier in the initiative order, has a better chance of taking half damage from the enemy fireball, and probably also has a better ranged attack option when one is needed.

 

[pdegan2814]

Well, to be fair, this is a continuation of another thread he made about how Wizards in 5e are under-powered. There is a bit more detail in that OP than in this one. I believe he does state a few things about it. Not sure how you can get 20 str on a level one Human at all however.

If he's gonna start a brand new thread, he should provide enough information in THIS one so that someone reading the first post of this thread will know what the heck he's talking about.

 

[sandvirm]

At this point, I'm pretty sure the poster thinks the "What's on your mind?" form at the top of the page is for replies rather than starting new threads.

 

[Istbor]

If he's gonna start a brand new thread, he should provide enough information in THIS one so that someone reading the first post of this thread will know what the heck he's talking about.

You'll get no argument from me there.

 

[hejtmane]

the best I can put together fighter 2nd level or ranger 2nd level TWF and Human Variant feat Dual Wielder

So at level one best stat dex or str gives +5 damage

ranger dex with dual rapiers 1d8 +5 and 1d8+5

or fighter dex or str build with 1d8 weapons is the same average damage 19 if they hit both attacks

If he is thinking Barbarian with rage at +2 str rage +5 str (20 str) they would not get the second +7 damage with out a two level dip in fighter/ranger that have to be at least level 4

His math not adding up now early level wizard has unlimited cantrip no need for a magic item to damage monsters that require magic items fire bolt 1d10 grows in damage by levels (even if they multi class)
Chilling touch 1d8 plus some other juicy side effects

If you get up in a crowd you can do 1d6 to everything in 5ft thunderclap

Wizards are better at aoe this really starts to shine as they level

First level spells
witch bolt can do 1d12 the entire fight on one spell by using concentration
Thunderwave yea it rock in multi monster fights


I would say melee on Single target large monster look good but when you throw in multiple monsters Wizards will rock the world and higher levels they really start to shine Fireball, lighting Bolt etc etc

Now Clerics on the other hand are more support oriented caster they have very few damaging spells and druids are kind of in the middle


caster can lay some lumber down and I would say their damage grows more as they level where melees start to level off earlier in the builds

just my two cents