Off to War (always recruiting) OCC Year 2:

[HolyMan]

For: Aldern Foxglove

Where's Aver's background I thought I read some stuff on him before? About him exploring human lands and such?

I don't think that I gave you feat replacements that when would become redundant. I thought you told me you were going to go wizard at LvL 2 and wanted the cantrips and familiar already established. We were to trade out your first lvl feat and most of the rogue weapon prof and light armor. Than when you lvl'ed you were to get them back along with the other abilities of a wizard you didn't have.

So here's what you should have for feats, skills, and abilities:

Feats: +2/+2(stealthy), 1st lvl?? (PBS), scribe scroll (G.wizard lvl1), Armor Prof. Light (rogue)
Skills: every skill a class skill but - Handle Animal, Heal, Ride, Speak Language, and Survival
Skill Points: 69 pts.
Class Abilities: sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding, summon familiar, generalist wizardry, spellcasting, spellbook, Prof w/ all simple weapons, Prof w/ hand crossbow, rapier, sap, short bow, short sword, longsword, long and short bow (and composites)

Going over your character I see the highlighted stuff missing. As it is Aver loks like he isn't prof with any weapon. I know it is like a givin that you have this weapon prof or that or since you have one lvl of Rogue you have trapfinding and sneak attack. But not so with the swap rules. If you were to play it as is I would say just paste in a link to the class in the srd.

Looking at Aver I see a few things I have a question about or think are wrong and a few things we could swap and have him set.

First -
- Class is Rogue/Wizard and level should be listed as 1/1
- Hit Doce should be 1d6+1d4+2
- Shortbow dmg is 1d6
- Feats should list where they are from
- Skill points still listed as 60 but 69 are spent
- Spot/Listen modifiers listed as +4 but have it marked as racial and not racial + familiar
- Spells per day list zero lvl as 5 but should be 3/day
- no racial abilities listed or bonuses (like the +2 to save vs charm and compulsion)
- No class abilities listed and or weapon Prof (which is the big one)

Now I see an easy fix here as you have listed what you want i.e. Precise Shot as a feat and everything else you should already have.

You could trade out Light armor prof for Precise Shot if you wish and you are set plus have all your weapon prof. intact

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Now about skills as class skills. I see this a little differently. I don't see it as a class thing but a way a character focuses themselves due to enviroment, people in thier lives (i.e. watching some do a certain skill), and other factors. Which certainly class plays a big part.

A wizard who spends lvl after lvl as an apprentice and studying everyday is alot different from the traveling wizard who learns on his own while trying to survive in the wild. The first would have Know-planes as a class skill from studying large tomes on them. The second would not so much have that as a class skill, but would swap it out for Hide which is very useful when ogres are around.

Or like my two fighter comparison one growing up in a city running the streets would have different "class" (or better yet focus) skills than one who grew up in a small village deep in the forest.

I see Aver as a Rogue and not really a wizard. To me wizardry is something he picks up because everyone says you need to study hard - study long but he snaps his fingers and *snap* like that he picks it up. He studies it because it is interesting and may help in future endeavors so he is now giving it more focus, but deep down he is all rogue.

This brings me to skills. Although he maybe studying his spellbook a little more each day and wandering about the use of a spell or what it would be like to fly he is still out and about in the world and you need certain skills to survive (or quick feet).

I think you need only make some swaps of your wizard skill list for those survival skills. Here's a short list of wizard skills Aver would probably not focus on and could swap out. If you do they need to be listed even if you don't put ranks in the one you swap for. Kind of like we are customing a class to serve the concept.

- Knowledge Skills to swap out:
Arcitecture & Engineeringdungeonerring
geography
nature
religion
planes

Again he would have passing knowledge of this stuff not the devoted knowledge which comes for being able to get 1 Rank for 1 point. That would give you 6 class skills and you could trade out Scribe Scroll for 2 more.

Sorry it's so long just wanted to get it all out.

HM

 

[HolyMan]

Sorry Zerith I don;t like the Master Linguist and besides it isn't really neccesary and will mess up part of the campagin plan for higher lvls.

Again sorry.

Also there is no redundant cantrips if you are going to be taking wizard as your second lvl and want the cantrips early we can work something out.

And would not allow one feat to be able to cast spells anyway but would give you an SLA so many times per day instead.

Lastly you are tearing up the fighter class for non fighter feats why don't we do something different. I mean why would you have training in almost every weapon and not have any armor or shield training? I don't like people taking fighter just so they can get a bunch of feats for one thing. I would have them trade all shield proficiencies out for a bonus not one for one, And for another your following the rules sure, but not the spirit of them.

HM

 

[Spade]

I'm probably just ignorant here, but a lot of that stuff seems redundant anyways, like you could probably find a class with some of those already and then just swap in whatever you don't want with the rest or something - But I don't actually know what class that would be.

Does seem like you just want the BAB and such though without having to actually be that class...

 

[Aldern Foxglove]

Right that fits nicely, but I would like to say give up rogue proficiencies for Practiced Spellcaster if that is viable. Say loose all the special rogue proficiencies and simple weapon proficiency to leave him with wizard and elven proficiencies?

Skills wise, I will trade out those listed for Disable Device, Escape Artist, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, and Spot. I think that covers all the bases very nicely - I really do not see Aver as a good listener, lol.

I've made all the suggested changes and added in all the class abilities and proficiencies. I'll also list class skills. I will but the unapproved weapon proficiencies swap in red for the moment until I hear back on it.

 

[HolyMan]

Looks good you may swap the weapon profs in red for Practiced Spellcaster.

Looks like you have yourself a roguish wizard now.

HM

 

[Aldern Foxglove]

Great! Happy with that.

 

[Zerith]

Shields, I actually have a good reason for him not using one, a ring with Shield as a continues effect, possibly mage armor on it as well; one would come to 2,000 GP (3,500 GP if it also has mage armor) costly sure, but by no means out of reach by any noble; I’m actually shocked nobles don’t use said rings as generic items ;

as for not using armor, again, enchanted clothes, 16,150 GP for 4 AC though. :/
The odd thing; the 3,500 GP ring gives a total of 8 AC, sure you can’t stack it with the spells it is granting but they’re always on if you so wish, so that’s an extra two 1st level spells if you’re a mage. In short, with just the ring you’re talking about as much protection as full plat armor without any of the encumbrance. Alternatively you’re talking about more protection than a breast plate and a heavy shield. Could even make the ring have the armor enchantment bonus, but that is more costly than just making the cloths being enchanted.
(Additionally, mage armor does not seem to stack with normal armor, so unless the armor is breast plate +, the ring’s mage armor is as good or better, and the ring’s shield is as good as a tower shield. so if a character is going to use magic, the ring is better then armor)

As for being trained in all the martial weapons and not in armor, not rely planning on him using anything else then a rapier by in large. But he needs “all martial weapons” to be an EK. And even proficient with them, he uses none finessable weapons at -1 instead of a +2 (he has 14 Dex)

Sadly for Alexander however, him proving himself without the things granted to him by his house, means he would have to give up said ring of magical armors, and his build is to light to easily accommodate armor ^_^;
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Also, I would still like to know if starting off with familiars means we still have to spend the 100 GP needed in the familiar’s summoning.
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By redundant catnips I trading for them at level one, and then when attaining them again when the character gets his first level in wizard, undoing the trade used to get them at level one to get something else.

Example:
First level; Shield Prof. for catnips
Second level; Traded for, now redundant, catnips for Combat Casting

Basically barrowing Catnips while using Combat Casting as the collateral
(and if familiars don’t need 100GP off bat I’d like to do the same with them as well.)

 

[Aldern Foxglove]

I think you need to reread the item creation rules Zerith. For example the Ring of Forceshield which is a +2 shield bonus for 8000gp - I would price a ring of continuous shield at a minimum of 36000gp - probably closer to 40000gp as the negate magic missile ability is stronger than the 1500gp Brooch of Shielding. And there are already Mage Armor items, the Bracers of Armor and a +4 set cost 16000gp.

I suggest you look at the Magic Item Compendium pricing break down its very helpful. Heck I'll post it - shhh, nobody tell!

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[Spade]

but by no means out of reach by any noble; I’m actually shocked nobles don’t use said rings as generic items ;

Nobles tend to, at least from what I've noticed in various settings + history, not be very fond of being in a position where they can get stabbed in the first place so that would actually be something of a waste of gold to them.

 

[Zerith]

@Spade
The ring can be worn at all items and helps you avoid getting stabbed by an assassin and is not stuffy, uncomfortable or out of place at a formal gathering. This is like insurance, and would be worn for the same reason as they hire body guards. for protection. History says political figures like to hide behind armor, but they also hate being inconvenienced, the ring is no bother and is a Lot of protection
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@Aldern Foxglove
I just looked and I did miscalculate the price, twice (forgot that continuous magic items that use spells that normally last 1 minut/level are X2 cost and miss read a cost modifier), but you and I are using different means of getting our bonuses here.

I'm using the magic item with a continues spell route: Spell level X Caster level X 2,000 GP
So the shield, by it self is 4,000 (Spell level one, Caster level one, one minute/level duration) and then 6,000 with the mage armor

Your using a flat enchantment bonus route: Bonus X Bonus X 1000
This way ties on AC per GP only up to 1 AC, but gets starkly less benefit per a GP as it increases, that said, you can easy upgrade this kind of ring, the above ring can't be upgraded nearly as effectively, that said, by the time you need to losing 6k gold is not going to kill you, I think...

Also, who would ever take a brooch of shielding? 1,500 GP to defend against one first level spell for a set amount of damage? Magic weapon of +1 stabing is only 500 more and you can kill the guy with it, unlimited times.
I would much rather spend a mere 800 GP on a Floaty rock of Cure miner wounds: heal 1 HP, unlimited times, and takes up no item slot. or you can make it into a wand for 400 GP, again, no charge limit :/

Yesh, I loath one off items. Also, if I was going to get the ring of noble armor (so what I'm going to call it...) it would start out a a cast once a day item and then upgrade to 2 times a day, 3 times a day, then four, and finally, consent (in the case of the sheild it would need to get up to 10 times a day worth before it became consent)

Also Hostess, it's the good stuff. ^_^