OOC - Magic Kingdom for Sale* - Full

[Sephiroth no Miko]

Isida, I was looking at your Negatai and thinking they are really not worth the +1 ECL, especially when compared your standard fire, water, air, and earth genasi.

Getting a +1 bonus/5 levels to necromantic effects, unintelligent undead ignoring them, the ability to rebuke as a cleric 4 levels lower, chill touch 1/day does not make up for the loss of -2 to all saves, and reduced healing.

I say this because both saves and healing both heavily impact on player characters all the time. They're always rolling saves, and always getting hurt. -2 to every save is just... brutal and the average -1 hp loss per dice cure spells is not insignificant either (the slow natural healing is less of an issue since adventurers rarely heal naturally).

However, a bunch of the negatai's bonuses are quite limited. +1/5 level vs. necromantic effects isn't that powerful, especially if a character needs 10 levels just to achieve a net +0 (plus, there's that -2 to Con to overcome). Both the unintelligent undead ignoring and the ability to rebuke is nice, but they're dependent on having undead around (which in turn, is DM dependent). Even then, neither are especially powerful. Skeletons and zombies aren't much of a threat, especially as a character gets higher in levels, and besides, if you do something threatening, they'll attack you. I would classify that as a minor ability at best.

Incidentally, for the rebuke undead, how many times can a negatai (or a positai for that matter) rebuke per day? Once or 3 + Cha like a cleric (I was assuming once)? A 1st level negatai (= to a 2nd level character if using ECL +1) would have to make a Cha check (which is what a turning check is) of 22 higher to even affect 1 HD undead! (Plus his turning damage would be 2d6 - 3 + Cha.) Most powerful undead like vampires, liches, ghosts (even ghouls) all have turning resistance anyways, so even high-level negatais would only be able to affect skeletons and zombies most of the time (both of which would just ignore him in the first place). Yes, I realize a 19th level negatai could rebuke as a 15th level cleric. But as an equivalent of a 20th level character (or even 19th), he would be facing much tougher opponents than what a 15th cleric would be facing.

So anyways, that's my argument for why I would consider a negatai around a net +0 ECL. I think the reduced healing penalty equals out the necromantic saves bonuses and invisibility to unintelligent undead and the -2 to saves equals out the rebuke and chill touch.

Of course, this is just my 0.02.

 

[Xael]

Just noticed that because the Shocking Grasp spell has changed in 3.5, the Kiss of Lightning and Heart of Lightning abilities might need some minor changes. Mainly because Shocking Grasp now has it's damage based on levels.

 

[Thanee]

Ok, I updated The Endless. Thanee, tell me what you think.

Looks much better that way.

Plenty errors in there (I've noticed a handful immediately when browsing over it quickly), however, I'll point those out later.


Here's another thing...

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]Special: Must not have taken any Item Creation feats, and refuse to learn any in the future. If an Item Creation feat is given as a class feature (such as a wizard's Scribe Scroll), the character can opt to simply not take it, even if it is free.

Some people in that threat have noted how this is a bit mean for wizards... maybe this would work?

Just restrict permanent item creation feats (those which craft permanent items only), but allow those which craft temporary items (Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, Craft Wand, Craft Staff, etc).


Re: Psionics - what kind of PrC would psionic characters take then?

Bye
Thanee

[/font]

 

[Thanee]

How about some woods with maybe a southern swamp or something for giggles and grins?

Would be fine by me... maybe some lake also, just for a change.

Are we supposed to build something up together? So, more like we build our town/castle here, rather than I build my tower here, I build my keep here, etc? I think so (first one), but just to be sure.

Unfortunetly I don't have the Player's Guide to Faerun, so we'll just have to not use it unless someone wants to buy it for me.

Ack, you know that some of the updates to 3.5 were fairly heavy, especially feats (Spellcasting Prodigy, Persistant Spell, etc), spells, magic items?

I could post the changes, if anyone wants to use some stuff from those books (only to the stuff that is going to be used, of course). Shouldn't be that hard, really, even if you don't have the book.

Leadership and Followers: Would it be reasonable for everyone to have Leadership? It kinda sounds like a very fitting feat, really.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

PrCs - In my sig. No two people have have the same PrC, and everyone should at least have 2 levels in one.

BTW, what about other PrC, can we have another PrC plus one of yours (given a fitting concept)?

I guess that wouldn't be a problem at this level, so just in case...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Sephiroth no Miko]

Are we supposed to build something up together? So, more like we build our town/castle here, rather than I build my tower here, I build my keep here, etc? I think so (first one), but just to be sure.

Ehr, yeah, I have to say i'm not entirely certain what our objectives are either. Though it kinda sounded like we were suppose to build our own frontier town to me too.

I'm okay with the woods and bit 'o swamp idea, too. Though my character might grouse about the swamp...

Leadership and Followers: Would it be reasonable for everyone to have Leadership? It kinda sounds like a very fitting feat, really.

You mean require everyone to take the feat? I could see that. Between the lot of us, we could have a whole hamlet! Of course, that would double the party size if everyone brought along their cohorts... that could get messy.

By the way, where's this Landlord (feat? ability?) thingie people have been mentioning? It sounds familiar but I can't find it.

 

[Xael]

Are we supposed to build something up together? So, more like we build our town/castle here, rather than I build my tower here, I build my keep here, etc? I think so (first one), but just to be sure.

Building a single town/castle would probably make more sense. It's a good thing that wooden houses don't really cost anything. Now we just need to chop some trees down. Or blast them.

By the way, where's this Landlord (feat? ability?) thingie people have been mentioning? It sounds familiar but I can't find it.

Stronghold Builder's Guidebook.

 

[Thanee]

Wall of Stone and Stone Shape can do a lot of nice stuff, too.

Crude, but at least a start.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Xael]

Wall of Stone and Stone Shape can do a lot of nice stuff, too.

Crude, but at least a start.

Indeed. Then just add Move Earth and make a friggin' huge moat (or a river) etc.

 

[Isida Kep'Tukari]

Here are just a few comments on converting the two PrCs I'm (still!) trying to decide between:

Living Spell

* How about adding Intimidate to the list of class skills since fighters get it under 3.5?

Reasonable. Done.

* Flame arrow no longer exists in the fiery bolt form in 3.5e; I think it's been split off into scorching ray. So perhaps you'll want to base it off that instead (same basic idea, 4d6 points of damage, ranged touch to hit).

Ehr, that's it for that, really...

Another good point. Silly 3.5...

Song Ghost

* Would you consider adding some skills to the Song Ghost's skill list? They are still bards, and most of their abilities remain bardic, and one of the great strength of bards is their skills. Alternatively, you could tie skill groups to the ghost type if you're uncomfortable with adding a whole bunch skills. For example, a song ghost with the scamp would get Hide, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble as class skill or something like that?

I like the second idea better. I'll do that. And add a few in to the main list.

* The 3.5 bard gets 6 skills point + Int per level instead of 4 but I don't know if you're up for this or not. This is a bard-specific class so you might want to, but it really depends on if you're comfortable with it.

Well, this class does get some special abilities, so I think I'll keep the skill points as-is.

* Does the incorporeal form take a standard action or free action to activate? How about to change back? (I assume if you re-corporate in a solid area, the usual effects apply- shunted off to the nearest open area, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet travelled?)

I just changed it, and yes it is standard, and the usual incorporal/solid objects rule apply.

* Since the Inspire Courage ability for Bardic Music now scales with the bard's level, you will probably just want to convert the enhancements the bonded spirit grants as an additional +1 bonus to fear saves, and attack and damage rolls on top of the whatever the bard gets for his level.

* Uhm, there's now also the issue of new Bardic Music abilities themselves. Before, under 3.0, the bard automatically got those abilities whenever his Perform ranks were high enough, regardless of actually whether he was a 10th level Bard or a 1st level Bard/9th level Rogue. Now, they've closed that loophole and tied the Bardic Music to bard levels as well. Do you want Song Ghost levels to stack with Bard levels for that purpose? One could argue that in lieu of gaining the higher bardic abilities (like inspire courage +3, song of freedom, inspire heroics... etc), they gain new abilities from their bonded ghost (the spiritual memory abilities and the like) instead. However, that might weaken the class in comparison from its 3.0 equivalent so you could balance that by adding one or both spell levels back into the spells per day. Or I guess you could keep it the way it was, and just use Bard level + Song Ghost level to determine the character's bardic music abilties (this seems to be more in the spirit of your PrC). The second way seems a little strange to me, because then you seem to be gaining both the class abilities of the bard class and the song ghost class as you go up (which was what you were doing under the original version, though it was written so it didn't seem that way).

Ok, I overhauled those abilities, tell me what you think.

If you pick the second way:

* For the Inspire Greatness ability, does the 2d6 damage apply for each use of the ability or for each person it affects? (I kinda assumed the former, but I want to double-check).

Each use.

* And this for Song of Freedom- The Song Ghost gains a +3 on caster level checks to break enchantments. Cost: 1d6+2 dmg? (Tried to model it after Countersong)

I liked that. So I used it.

[quote* As the bard's Suggestion ability DC already increases with the bard's level for 3.5, maybe we can just turn this into a straight +2 on top? I personally thought the 2d6 dmg was a little excessive for enhancing a single spell for a mere +2 in the original but it's always your call. I was going to suggest (heh! nonmagically, of course) that the Suggestion could cost 1d6 dmg and the Mass Suggestion could cost 2d6 dmg.[/quote] Changed that too.

* I would like to point out that the animal friendship spell (for the feral bonded spirit) no longer exists in 3.5. Perhaps speak with animals instead? Or maybe a permanent endure elements effect?

Speak with animals sounds good. Whee!

* How does the Foot in the Grave immunity to stunning effects resolve with the stunning from a turn? Is a 3rd level or higher Song Ghost simply not affected? Maybe instead of being stunned, the Song Ghost could be staggered, or shaken, or sickened instead with a successful turning effect for 1d4 rounds?

Stagger sounds good.

So, how am I looking now?