[Powergaming] Monk/Ninja (or Rogue) = Nasty!

[Ishamael]

I sat down to make my newest character and ran across an interesting feat combo.

Human Monk 1 / Ninja 4 (or Rogue 5, doesn't really matter)

Feats:
Combat Reflexes
Expert Tactician
Unbalancing Strike (Oriental Adventures)

Unbalancing Strike allows you to make an unarmed attack. If successful, victim makes a saving throw. If he fails, he looses his Dex bonus and you get a +2 to hit. This opens him up to a sneak attack. You can do this as much as you want.

Given the combo of expert tactician, unbalancing strike and a few good bluff rolls, you can rip your opponent to pieces.

Makes for a really good martial artist type class. You get a little bit better unarmed damage and the sneak attacks represent strikes to pressure points and vital areas such as the throat.

 

[Darkness]

Sounds good!

 

[Tar-Edhel]

Is the ninja a PrC in OA? If not, you'll get stuck doing 1d6 of damage/attack and never being able to attack creatures that need magic weapon to touch since you won't be able to gain aditionnal levels as a monk.

I thought about a similar mix (monk/rogue) but I realised I didn't gain much by having one monk level.

Plus, you loose a few skill points if you start 1st level monk instead of rogue.

I'm not saying that it is hopeless... It certainly has great role-playing potential and can shine on the field... given the right campaign.

 

[RogueJK]

In OA monks can freely multiclass. Even in FR, certain orders of monks allow their members to multiclass freely with specific other classes.

Also, the Ninja that he is referring to is most likely the Ninja core class from AEG's Rokugan Campaign Setting. It is basically a Rogue, with a better BAB, fewer skill points, and a few perks like Poison Use. It can be found at http://l5r.alderac.com/rpg/rokugan_ninja.pdf

 

[exempt]

We have a rogue/monk like this in our campaign. She doesn't have the Expert Tactician feat yet, but it works wonders. At first I had thought she would be a wimpy MA-wannabe, but the player stumbled across that Unbalancing Strike feat and now kicks (punny, huh?).

To emphasize, she's in the midst of a martial arts torunament, and gained enough XP to level up. To make herself a better contestant, she chose a level of -- rogue... for the better sneak attack damage.

 

[Ishamael]

I posted this as a seperate topic to get a little more response, but I'll put it here too:

Was thinking about this last night. It appears, as written, Unbalancing Strike can be a sneak attack itself.

Yes, it is the AEG ninja I was talking about.

Now get this: You will get to see a Monk/Ninja take down a Fighter of equal level before the fighter can react.

Round One: Human Monk 1/ninja 4 vs. Orc Fighter 5 (44hp)

Ninja sneaks up on Orc.

Surprise! Ninja attacks with quick jab to the throat. Unbalancing
Strike: 1d6+2 + 2d6 = 11 dmg. Orc now at 33.
Orc Denied Dexterity bonus [Flat footed]. Activates the ninja's Expert Tactician.

Ninja attacks with ninja-to: 1d6+2 + 2d6 = 11 dmg. Orc now at 22.

Round Two: Initiative: Ninja (+5), Orc (+1) Ninja wins initiative.

Orc is denied Dexterity Bonus from Unbalancing Strike used in round 1.

Ninja Attacks with an unarmed strike to the temple. Unbalancing Strike:1d6+2 + 2d6 = 11 dmg. Orc now at 11.

Loss of the Orc's dexterity bonus activates Expert Tactician again. Ninja attacks with ninja-to: 1d6+2 + 2d6 = 11 dmg. Orc now at 0.
(If the Orc had more hit points, the ninja could use his Stunning Attack to buy himself an extra round.)

This is just using the average damage done. This is a nasty combo. Think of the horror of fighting with two weapons or just opting to attack with the sword and fist.

Personally, I think I will rule that Unbalancing Strike cannot have Sneak Attack damage applied. The flavor text says that the character attacks a joint to throw the character off balance. It is easy to rule that attacking the joint isn't an accurate enough strike to warrant the extra Sneak Attack damage. Of course, we'll just have to over look the fact that all of your joints are covered in pressure points.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Geesus that class is powerful. A class with perfect BAB and 1d6 HP just doesn't make any sense at all to me.

4 skill points per level and evasion aparently equals better BAB, poison use, ninja dodge, speed of darkness, shadow run, and blindfight.

Bleh.

--Disgusted Spikey

 

[Sir Apropos]

Not to be picky but if you use alignment in your games the Monk/Ninja combo can't happen. Monks must be Lawful and Ninjas have to be non-Lawful. Rogues are cool though with the above combo.

 

[Ishamael]

Geesus that class is powerful. A class with perfect BAB and 1d6 HP just doesn't make any sense at all to me.

4 skill points per level and evasion aparently equals better BAB, poison use, ninja dodge, speed of darkness, shadow run, and blindfight.

Bleh.

--Disgusted Spikey

Well... yea. At least in my opinion.

Excellent BAB: Very nice, but the ninja lacks the hit points or AC to use it very effectivly. He can't stand a toe-to-toe fight for very long as he doesn't have the HP to take much.

Poison use is not a biggy at all. Anyone can use it, this just stops you from getting poisoned yourself.

Ninja Dodge: not a real big deal. Just a bonus to AC. Remember, Ninjas are not proficient with any armor. If they use any, they loose the use of many of their abilities.

Speed of Darkness: Intelligence bonus to initiative. Pretty nice, but hardly game-breaking. Not even as good as Improved Initiative in most cases. Speed of Darkness + Improved Initiative is usually overkill and not worth spending the feat on.

Shadow Run: Constitution Mod x 5 added to speed. Big deal. Most ninjas want have a Con more than 14 (+10 Speed). Heck, the one I'm running now has a 10. You need to put your good scores in Intelligence and Dexterity.

Blindfight: A feat that anyone can get. Not a big deal here either.

You forgot Deflect Arrows. Nice, but again, hardly something to write home about.

The Rogue:

You give up twice the skill points, the ability to wear any kind of armor, evasion, the trap finding ability, and the special abilities above 10th level that a rogue gets. Personally, I think it's pretty balanced.


Get back to me when you've played the ninja class. Things that look good on paper don't always turn out so great in play.

 

[Ishamael]

Not to be picky but if you use alignment in your games the Monk/Ninja combo can't happen. Monks must be Lawful and Ninjas have to be non-Lawful. Rogues are cool though with the above combo.

You can if you never plan to advance as a monk again. You don't lose your already gained abilities, but you can't take any more levels in monk.