(Proposal) Learner Prestige Class

[GnomeWorks]

That's not really a fix because it assumes that the devastating ability has to come from the Learner class. What if my Wizard takes 1 level of this class to get Quickness twice per day, then didn't learn anything else and promptly used Quickness to cast her Wizard spells?

Quickness, twice per day, for one round apiece. At that point, I'd say that that's not broken. Keeping in mind what the wizard is giving up - access to more spells, possibly a new level of spells, familiar progression, possible access to new item creation feats - I'd say that two uses of Quickness at 1 round is a fine trade-off.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Quickness, twice per day, for one round apiece. At that point, I'd say that that's not broken. Keeping in mind what the wizard is giving up - access to more spells, possibly a new level of spells, familiar progression, possible access to new item creation feats - I'd say that two uses of Quickness at 1 round is a fine trade-off.

Oh, when you said 1 round per level, I thought it was character level. Class level, eh? Practised Spellcaster: Learner then

 

[GnomeWorks]

Oh, when you said 1 round per level, I thought it was character level. Class level, eh? Practised Spellcaster: Learner then

Nope, it's 1 round/learner level for using talents.

I don't think Practiced Spellcaster is in the SRD, so I don't see a problem there... and even then, they're not a spellcaster.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Nope, it's 1 round/learner level for using talents.

I don't think Practiced Spellcaster is in the SRD, so I don't see a problem there... and even then, they're not a spellcaster.

I must not be looking at the same version of this class then...Hmm...Ah, that'd do it.

 

[GnomeWorks]

I must not be looking at the same version of this class then...Hmm...Ah, that'd do it.

So you've been arguing this whole time using an outdated version of the class? That's sort of funny... are you reading the latest post that contains the class? Because's that's the most up-to-date version.

Now that you're (hopefully) reading the most recent one... still any concerns?

 

[Rystil Arden]

Okay then, new one on a similar vein:

This time I'm a dedicated Learner with enough Use Magic Device to use Spell-trigger items automatically. I can activate Quickness and then spam powerful Spell-Trigger items.

 

[Rystil Arden]

However, perhaps one possible fix (since you could easily replace the breath weapon in your example with any other attack talent), would be to make all talents at least a full-round action. Quickness would not be nearly as broken in that instance, and could be rationalized as emulation taking longer than the real thing (ie, a dragon can breathe because thats what they're built to do, but a learner emulating that ability has to give it a little more effort).

Everything I've said except 'is a spellcaster' applies equally to the newer one

 

[GnomeWorks]

Okay then, new one on a similar vein:

This time I'm a dedicated Learner with enough Use Magic Device to use Spell-trigger items automatically. I can activate Quickness and then spam powerful Spell-Trigger items.

At that point you're no different than a rogue doing the same thing, except that you're doing it twice as fast. Which I suppose would be problematic.

Don't know how to fix that problem.

 

[Rystil Arden]

At that point you're no different than a rogue doing the same thing, except that you're doing it twice as fast. Which I suppose would be problematic.

Don't know how to fix that problem.

Exactly. The twice as fast thing is the problem. That's because in D&D, actions are the primary currency, and if you have twice as many as the other guy, there will always be a way to become overpowering. Hence, Quickness is basically 'unsafe at any speed.'

Anyways, I'm not the one you need to convince here, so since it doesn't matter what I think, don't feel you need to discuss/argue with me unless you feel I'm helping by providing these arguments.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Anyways, I'm not the one you need to convince here, so since it doesn't matter what I think, don't feel you need to discuss/argue with me unless you feel I'm helping by providing these arguments.

Argument is always good. If it's constructive and we make progress, it's just a good idea.