D&D 5E [Question] Medusa and Sight Based Spells (Magic Missile, Blight, etc.)

[Gaming_Unplugged]

Relevant Text: Medusa:

Petrifying Gaze. When a creature that can see the medusa's eyes starts its turn within 30 feet of the medusa, the medusa can force it to make a DC 14 Constitution saving throw if the medusa isn't incapacitated and can see the creature. If the saving throw fails by 5 or more, the creature is instantly petrified. Otherwise, a creature that fails the save begins to turn to stone and is restrained . The restrained creature must repeat the saving throw at the end of its next turn, becoming petrified on a failure or ending the effect on a success. The petrification lasts until the creature is freed by the greater restoration spell or other magic.

Unless surprised, a creature can avert its eyes to avoid the saving throw at the start of its turn. If the creature does so, it can't see the medusa until the start of its next turn, when it can avert its eyes again. If the creature looks at the medusa in the meantime, it must immediately make the save.

If the medusa sees itself reflected on a polished surface within 30 feet of it and in an area of bright light, the medusa is, due to its curse, affected by its own gaze.


​

Example Spell Text (Blight):

Necromantic energy washes over a creature of your choice that you can see within range,draining moisture and vitality from it. The target must make a Constitution saving throw. The target takes 8d8 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. This spell has no effect on undead or constructs. lf you target a plant creature or a magical plant, it makes the saving throw with disadvantage, and the spell deals maximum damage to it.

lf you target a non-magical plant that isn't a creature, such as a tree or shrub, it doesn't make a saving throw; it simply withers and dies.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level or higher, the damage increases by Id8 for each slot level above 4th.​

​

Ok. I have a question about the interaction. I believe I know the interaction, but a player in my campaign was quite emphatic as to how "wrong" I was. The mage player argued that he didn't have to look at the Medusa's eyes to cast the spell, that he can instead look at a foot and cast the spell. I argued that when a player "avert's their eyes," the rules are that the medusa is effectively invisible to the player, pursuant to extensive searching. Therefore, you can't cast sight based spells. However, you could cast projectile spells toward a specific square, and try damage it but it would be at disadvantage against the location. This degraded to a discussion about the mechanics of "how medusas work within mythology," a topic I didn't exactly want to get into. However, the question I have to you guys is this:

Can a mage cast sight based spells on a creature if they can't see said creature. In another set of language, can a player look at said medusa's body without provoking the gaze attack? And finally, (as after extensive debate that was quite frankly exhausting on my own part) I ruled the player could deliver the spell as a touch attack and just walk up and try and hit him. A bad ruling I realize, but I was just trying to progress the game beyond what was clearly a major hurdle.

 

[Savage Wombat]

I'm not the best expert, but that's certainly how I ruled. You can't attack "blindly" with a spell that requires sight targeting.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

I'd allow it. There's no specific line about being able to look into the target's eyes, just being able to see the target.

 

[Gaming_Unplugged]

I'd allow it. There's no specific line about being able to look into the target's eyes, just being able to see the target.

I'm confused. Allow what exactly? You would allow the player to only cast the spell on the foot and thus not provoke the gaze attack?

If this is your stance, what effects does that do to the creature's CR level then? I can't help but think this opens the gate for fighters to say "I look at the medusa's leg and attack it there." No penalty anymore, and thus no possibility of gaze attack. Similarly, the rogue could backstab him in the leg. I don't know it seems like a slippery slope.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I'm confused. Allow what exactly? You would allow the player to only cast the spell on the foot and thus not provoke the gaze attack?

If this is your stance, what effects does that do to the creature's CR level then? I can't help but think this opens the gate for fighters to say "I look at the medusa's leg and attack it there." No penalty anymore, and thus no possibility of gaze attack. Similarly, the rogue could backstab him in the leg. I don't know it seems like a slippery slope.

Is there any reason to think the Medusa's gaze shtick even counts for defensive CR purposes in the first place? AfB but I don't think it's listed in the DMG as an AC boost.

If not, then the answer is simple: letting players nullify the gaze attack at will does not affect CR.

I'm pretty sure the Nycaloth's Darkness + Devil's Sight combo doesn't affect its CR either.

CR is goofy.

Sent from my SM-G355M using Tapatalk

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

"A creature that can see the medusas eyes" would indicate a backstabbing attack is fine (no eyes in the back of its head).

Aside from that, on reflection, you're probably right.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Petrifying Gaze: Unless surprised, a creature can avert its eyes to avoid the saving throw at the start of its turn. If the creature does so, it can't see the medusa until the start of its next turn.

Blight: Necromantic energy washes over a creature of your choice that you can see within range.

The rules are clear on this. If you're averting your eyes, you can't see the medusa. If you can't see the medusa, you can't target it with blight.

 

[Gaming_Unplugged]

Yeah. I was torn about this. Are the snake's eyes the "medusa's eyes?" I don't know. Do the snakes cause the petrification? Or does the human's eyes?

 

[Gaming_Unplugged]

Is there any reason to think the Medusa's gaze shtick even counts for defensive CR purposes in the first place? AfB but I don't think it's listed in the DMG as an AC boost.

IF that is true, then it is goofy as hell. It is essentially an insta-kill ability. If that doesn't raise the Challenge Rating, then Challenge Ratings are badly designed.

 

[Gaming_Unplugged]

The rules are clear on this. If you're averting your eyes, you can't see the medusa. If you can't see the medusa, you can't target it with blight.

I felt they were clear, but I have the player emailing me i'm still wrong. So You know, whatever. I was just trying to see if I was going crazy or not.