D&D (2024) Size, Carrying Capacity, Strength, Athletics, Mobility

[Yaarel]

@Mistwell

Part of participating in a 2024 Playtest forum is calling attention to pain points in the 2014 rules.

The awkwardness and MAD-ness of splitting agility, swashbuckling, and parkour between Strength and Dexterity can be painful, especially painful for players of characters or settings that emphasize these.

It helps to mechanically separate "mobility" from "brute force".

The "brute force" tightly correlates with Size and Carrying Capacity. Thus quantifying these more carefully helps better understand how to elegantly separate brute force from mobility.

 

[Mistwell]

@Mistwell

Part of participating in a 2024 Playtest forum is calling attention to pain points in the 2014 rules.

The awkwardness and MAD-ness of splitting agility, swashbuckling, and parkour between Strength and Dexterity can be painful, especially painful for players of characters or settings that emphasize these.

It helps to mechanically separate "mobility" from "brute force".

OK. But we have another thread on that.

The "brute force" tightly correlates with Size and Carrying Capacity. Thus quantifying these more carefully helps better understand how to elegantly separate brute force from mobility.

But you said they were making that separation with 2024. Have we seen any indication that is in the plans? Seems like ability checks are completed for playtesting and I don't recall that being in there. Has there been a video on the topic?

 

[Laurefindel]

Personally, I liked the way it was. Same damage, same strength, same of almost everything for the same contribution as a small-sized adventurer; that was a satisfactory trade-off for lack of « realism » as far as I’m concerned.

yes, they are smaller, therefore not as much mass, therefore not as strong but also not as heavy; so for most athletic feats its a wash. Half carrying capacity has little impact if your equipment weighs half as well, so it makes things simpler just to keep it all the same for small and medium-sized PCs. It only becomes relevant if your halfling has to carry human-sized armour, or if your human has to carry halfling gear. That’s too niche to be worth the trouble IMO. However, this means that treasure and magical gear weighs the same for everyone, which honestly I’m fine with that.

Still, being smaller had its drawbacks. Heavy weapons are pretty long as per PHB. A halfling couldn’t use a two-handed sword not because they weren’t strong enough, but because the weapon was too massive and would unbalance the character too much. This used to hurt small-sized PC mostly by denying them the +10 damage-boost of GWM, but that part might not be an issue anymore. Halfling not being able to wrestle giants was enough for me to concerve suspension of disbelieve.

Still, 5e doesn’t have many advantages for being small, which is my main complaint.

 

[Yaarel]

OK. But we have another thread on that.

You mean the Rogue thread? The Grapple thread?

The issue of agility MAD-ness deserves a dedicated discussion, its own thread.

But you said they were making that separation with 2024. Have we seen any indication that is in the plans? Seems like ability checks are completed for playtesting and I don't recall that being in there. Has there been a video on the topic?

I said, the rules including some Playtest updates, are correlating Carrying with Size, in some ways. This is a good way forward. But more needs to be done to disentangle the mobility concept.

 

[Yaarel]

According to the 2014 Players Handbook, the Carrying Capacity for an average Strength 10 at various sizes is:

Gargantuan: 1,200 lb
Huge: 600 lb
Large: 300 lb
Medium: 150 lb

The Size can Carry the above weight around without fatigue. But if to simply "lift", double the weight. A Strength Score of 20 can double the weight again.


Intentionally, these official numbers are unrealistically high, for the purpose of making encumbrance tracking moot. The numbers disresemble reallife humans. Note, a Halfling that is roughly 3½ feet tall and 40 pounds, is implausibly Carrying around almost 4x to 8x ones own body weight.

 

[Yaarel]

In reallife, the average American man can "lift" (benchpress) about 135 lb, without training.

Having "training" in the Weightlifting "skill" can drastically increase the amount of weight benchpressed.

• Untrained 135 lb
• Novice 175 lb
• Intermediate 215 lb
• Advanced 290 lb
• Elite 360 lb
• World Record 1,401 lb


A way to roughly look at these numbers for game purposes is the following formula:


Weightlifting Skill: Lift = (2 + Strength + Proficiency) × ½ bodyweight

Example:

Lift 150 lb = (2 + 0 Strength + 0 Proficiency) × ½ (150 lb bodyweight)

Lift 1,425 lb = (2 + 5 Strength + 12 Proficiency Expertise) × ½ (150 lb bodyweight)


The formula works for any Size, while extrapolating from reallife stats.

 

[Mistwell]

Seems roughly right?

 

[Horwath]

In reallife, the average American man can "lift" (benchpress) about 135 lb, without training.

Having "training" in the Weightlifting "skill" can drastically increase the amount of weight benchpressed.

• Untrained 135 lb
• Novice 175 lb
• Intermediate 215 lb
• Advanced 290 lb
• Elite 360 lb
• World Record 1,401 lb


A way to roughly look at these numbers for game purposes is the following formula:


Weightlifting Skill: Lift = (2 + Strength + Proficiency) × ½ bodyweight

Example:

Lift 150 lb = (2 + 0 Strength + 0 Proficiency) × ½ (150 lb bodyweight)

Lift 1,425 lb = (2 + 5 Strength + 12 Proficiency Expertise) × ½ (150 lb bodyweight)


The formula works for any Size, while extrapolating from reallife stats.

this formula does not work as world record holder, Jimmy Kolb is 148Kg(326lb)

also, very optimistic that average American is 68kg(150lb)

 

[AnotherGuy]

Yaarel thanks for the thread!
It is great for the tinkerers.

 

[Horwath]

Note, a Halfling that is roughly 3½ feet tall and 40 pounds, is implausibly Carrying around almost 4x to 8x ones own body weight.

this is also why a halfling cannot use human(or medium) sized weapons,
no matter if they have supernatural strength in comparison to muscle size, it's simply not enough mass in their own bodies to control the mass of the weapon.
Or do they also have supernatural friction with the ground?
or their bodies have supernatural density so average 100cm high halfling has 75Kg?