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D&D 5E Speculating about the future of the D&D industry/community in a post-5E world

DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
Instead of the speculation and guess work that seems to happen on what WotC is thinking and doing. They need to be a LOT more transparent in to what the future holds for D&D. Even the so called beta was not transparent... being it was enclosed with an NDA.

I wish they would, but some of their lack of transparency is due to being part of a publicly held corporation, so information is often kept close to the vest - whether that's a wise strategy or not (sometimes it's a legal issue).
 

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DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Er, not to be a wet blanket, but, historically, I've specifically heard non-gamers respond to that question with things like "You mean like that Vampire thing?". That was in the late '90s early '00s, though.

More likely they will say "You mean like [insert major computer MMORPG or JRPG here]". So there's that.

I'd give you Vampire at it's height as one that might have had some traction in some circles of the populace... and yeah, to another part of the populace they'll throw out any nerdish buzzword they can think of that might even come close to fulfilling the question "Do you know what a roleplaying game is?" I'm sure we'd get occasional responses like "World of Warcraft?", "Warhammer?", "Lord of the Rings?"

But other than those rare outliers, we're going to see 'D&D' still be the go-to answer for any questions about the tabletop roleplaying industry. And there's nothing wrong with that... but it just shows how much of an uphill battle it is for any company to reach beyond the niche to find new players to pull in.
 

Werebat

Explorer
I'd give you Vampire at it's height as one that might have had some traction in some circles of the populace... and yeah, to another part of the populace they'll throw out any nerdish buzzword they can think of that might even come close to fulfilling the question "Do you know what a roleplaying game is?" I'm sure we'd get occasional responses like "World of Warcraft?", "Warhammer?", "Lord of the Rings?"

But other than those rare outliers, we're going to see 'D&D' still be the go-to answer for any questions about the tabletop roleplaying industry. And there's nothing wrong with that... but it just shows how much of an uphill battle it is for any company to reach beyond the niche to find new players to pull in.

In as much as competition between WotC and Paizo is a good thing for gamers (and I firmly believe that it is), we should be hoping that the competition for market share drags on for as long as possible. It's impossible to say which company will "win" in the long run, if either of them does. For as long as there is competition we can expect the two companies to influence each other when it comes to game design as they go through the inevitable game system cycles of rules bloat and paring (usually in the form of new editions or other reboots). If 5th Edition does something particularly well, you can bet that Paizo will be consider adopting that thing (or some variant of it) when they eventually get around to 2nd Edition Pathfinder.

It is not insignificant that the head publisher at Paizo is reading this thread!

Again, this is very good for consumers/gamers. It spurs both companies on to do their best and speeds up the evolution of gaming as a whole. I tend to view this evolution as cyclic more than linear, but that as the circle comes around and around the stylus engraving it etches deeper, if that makes any sense -- RPGs now seem more "advanced" to me than they did many years ago.

Paizo and WotC have already been compared to death, but I'll add that the struggle between them continues to feel like the classic "giant vs elf" battle, with WotC having more raw power by virtue of money, tradition, and name recognition but Paizo having the advantage of agility, maneuverability, and... intelligence, but I don't mean that in the way that it probably sounds (for a variety of reasons I think Paizo is capable of making good decisions more often than WotC is).

In general (forum atmosphere aside), I think it's easier to *like* Paizo -- it's more in tune with and able to be responsive to the gaming community, for one. And I'll happily switch over to whatever new edition of Pathfinder Paizo eventually comes out with when it's ready to pare down the bloat and deal with some other issues that can make the game difficult to run. And I fully expect 5th Edition to have developed its own problems by then.

For better or worse, we can expect a much faster rate of game system evolution while this rivalry stands than we got back in the day when TSR really was the only show in town that mattered. I like to think it's a good thing.
 

GrumpyGamer

First Post
In general (forum atmosphere aside), I think it's easier to *like* Paizo -- it's more in tune with and able to be responsive to the gaming community, for one. And I'll happily switch over to whatever new edition of Pathfinder Paizo eventually comes out with when it's ready to pare down the bloat and deal with some other issues that can make the game difficult to run. And I fully expect 5th Edition to have developed its own problems by then.

For me it is interesting how much Paizo has become the old WOTC and much WOTC has become the old Paizo.

Paizo used to have one core book and awesome APs, now they have a never ending supply of splat books of questionable quality. WOTC had a never ending supply of new PHBs (splat books) and questionable modules, now they seem to be focused on a few rule books and seem to be focused on "stories" (APs).

The role of the lumbering giant and agile elf in my opinion has switched.
 
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Werebat

Explorer
For me it is interesting how much Paizo has become the old WOTC and much WOTC has become the old Paizo.

Paizo used to have one core book and awesome APs, now they have a never ending supply of splat books of questionable quality. WOTC had a never ending supply of new PHBs (splat books) and questionable modules, now they seem to be focused on a few rule books and seem to be focused on "stories" (APs).

The role of the lumbering giant and agile elf in my opinion has switched.

That's an interesting observation. I was talking more about WotC's (or Hasbro's) money-muscle and D&D's power of brand name recognition as opposed to Paizo's freedom from corporate control by Hasbro. But I certainly agree with you about what you are saying.

Then thing is, I would expect the "bloat" you are talking about to reverse eventually, as 5th Edition experiences the inevitable power creep and other bloat over time that is natural to game systems and Paizo eventually decides to come out with a 2nd Edition of Pathfinder.
 

carmachu

Adventurer
For me it is interesting how much Paizo has become the old WOTC and much WOTC has become the old Paizo.

Paizo used to have one core book and awesome APs, now they have a never ending supply of splat books of questionable quality. WOTC had a never ending supply of new PHBs (splat books) and questionable modules, now they seem to be focused on a few rule books and seem to be focused on "stories" (APs).

The role of the lumbering giant and agile elf in my opinion has switched.


I have to say that's pretty accurate. The never ending splat books is very true. Friends use to joke you could be a left handed juggling sheep herder from a bad home and get bonuses for everything just mentioned.....
 

Werebat

Explorer
I have to say that's pretty accurate. The never ending splat books is very true. Friends use to joke you could be a left handed juggling sheep herder from a bad home and get bonuses for everything just mentioned.....

You could, but you actually got more plusses if you were a GOAT herder -- provided you were playing a half-drow half-sahuagan who worshipped any diety of war. And took the Nymph's Kiss feat, but that goes without saying.
 


Thaumaturge

Wandering. Not lost. (He/they)
You could, but you actually got more plusses if you were a GOAT herder -- provided you were playing a half-drow half-sahuagan who worshipped any diety of war. And took the Nymph's Kiss feat, but that goes without saying.

Everyone knows nerf herders are the best.

Thaumaturge.
 


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