spells you think are the wrong level

[shilsen]

I heartily agree with the point that Conjuration spells should NOT be doing energy effects. That's the whole point of the Evocation school. Conjuration should be bringing in objects/creatures, but never energy.

This, IMO, really needs to be addressed. It makes Conjuration WAY too powerful if you get direct damage spells as well as summoning.

And don't forget Conjuration also has the teleportation subschool and the best set of environment-controlling spells (Solid/Acid Fog, Evard's BT, Cloudkill, the Wall spells) along with Transmutation. Seriously, the amount of love given to Conj in 3.5 in just the core books is a bit much, and with non-core (Complete Arcane, I'm looking at you) sources it's way over the top.

 

[Voadam]

Ah, but Ice Storm is nice in that it bypasses SR, has two damage types, which almost always guarantees some effects, and can halt visibility and movement as a mage escape spell.

It's all about how you use it, but I've used Ice Storm to much better effect than Fireball. Plus what other evocation spells are at 4th level that do reasonable area damage?

Ice storm is an evocation that does not bypass SR, it's cold damage is 2d6 and unlikely to significantly power past cold resistance, it only slows (does not halt) movement in a 20 ft. radius area, does not explicitly provide concealment/block visibility and its blocking only lasts 1 round. Compare that versus any of the wall spells. It's 3d6 bludgeoning is from magical hailstones, so is that subject to DR and count as magical bludgeoning but potentially subject to more reductions of the 5d6 damage?

Ooh, its long range.

And it cannot be evasion dodged by monks and rogues as it has no reflex save agains its 5d6 damage.

Ice Storm
Evocation [Cold]
Level: Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4, Water 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: Cylinder (20-ft. radius, 40 ft. high)
Duration: 1 full round
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Great magical hailstones pound down for 1 full round, dealing 3d6 points of bludgeoning damage and 2d6 points of cold damage to every creature in the area. A -4 penalty applies to each Listen check made within the ice storm’s effect, and all land movement within its area is at half speed. At the end of the duration, the hail disappears, leaving no aftereffects (other than the damage dealt).

Arcane Material Component
A pinch of dust and a few drops of water.

I'd rather do wall of fire or ice

Wall of Fire
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Drd 5, Fire 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Opaque sheet of flame up to 20 ft. long/level or a ring of fire with a radius of up to 5 ft. per two levels; either form 20 ft. high
Duration: Concentration + 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

An immobile, blazing curtain of shimmering violet fire springs into existence. One side of the wall, selected by you, sends forth waves of heat, dealing 2d4 points of fire damage to creatures within 10 feet and 1d4 points of fire damage to those past 10 feet but within 20 feet. The wall deals this damage when it appears and on your turn each round to all creatures in the area. In addition, the wall deals 2d6 points of fire damage +1 point of fire damage per caster level (maximum +20) to any creature passing through it. The wall deals double damage to undead creatures.

If you evoke the wall so that it appears where creatures are, each creature takes damage as if passing through the wall. If any 5-foot length of wall takes 20 points of cold damage or more in 1 round, that length goes out. (Do not divide cold damage by 4, as normal for objects.)

Wall of fire can be made permanent with a permanency spell. A permanent wall of fire that is extinguished by cold damage becomes inactive for 10 minutes, then reforms at normal strength.

Arcane Material Component
A small piece of phosphorus.

Wall of Ice
Evocation [Cold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Anchored plane of ice, up to one 10-ft. square/level, or hemisphere of ice with a radius of up to 3 ft. + 1 ft./level
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Reflex negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell creates an anchored plane of ice or a hemisphere of ice, depending on the version selected. A wall of ice cannot form in an area occupied by physical objects or creatures. Its surface must be smooth and unbroken when created. Any creature adjacent to the wall when it is created may attempt a Reflex save to disrupt the wall as it is being formed. A successful save indicates that the spell automatically fails. Fire can melt a wall of ice, and it deals full damage to the wall (instead of the normal half damage taken by objects). Suddenly melting a wall of ice creates a great cloud of steamy fog that lasts for 10 minutes.

Ice Plane
A sheet of strong, hard ice appears. The wall is 1 inch thick per caster level. It covers up to a 10-foot-square area per caster level (so a 10th-level wizard can create a wall of ice 100 feet long and 10 feet high, a wall 50 feet long and 20 feet high, or some other combination of length and height that does not exceed 1,000 square feet). The plane can be oriented in any fashion as long as it is anchored. A vertical wall need only be anchored on the floor, while a horizontal or slanting wall must be anchored on two opposite sides.

Each 10-foot square of wall has 3 hit points per inch of thickness. Creatures can hit the wall automatically. A section of wall whose hit points drop to 0 is breached. If a creature tries to break through the wall with a single attack, the DC for the Strength check is 15 + caster level.

Even when the ice has been broken through, a sheet of frigid air remains. Any creature stepping through it (including the one who broke through the wall) takes 1d6 points of cold damage +1 point per caster level (no save).

Hemisphere
The wall takes the form of a hemisphere whose maximum radius is 3 feet + 1 foot per caster level. The hemisphere is as hard to break through as the ice plane form, but it does not deal damage to those who go through a breach.

Material Component
A small piece of quartz or similar rock crystal.

 

[Sejs]

My general feeling on the conjuration / energy damage thing is that conjuration should be the source of your more damage over time spells, and if it's channeling energy and/or force it should be evocation.


Conjure some acid or some lava onto the guy? No problem with that being conjuration. It's tangible. It's a physical thing you took from somewhere else and put there. Channeling the raw fires of creation to burn your foes? Evocation all the way.

 

[heirodule]

Ice Storm
Evocation [Cold]
Level: Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4, Water 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: Cylinder (20-ft. radius, 40 ft. high)
Duration: 1 full round
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Great magical hailstones pound down for 1 full round, dealing 3d6 points of bludgeoning

This would be better for its level if the description said the hail pounds down for the duration of the spell. That way you could cast an extended version.

 

[lukelightning]

The whole conjuration vs. SR problem would go away if WoTC adopts my "make SR like DR and Energy Resistance" idea.

Get rid of the whole power check. Replace SR with save bonuses and/or DR that protects against magical effects, like energy resistance.

I find it ridiculous that a fireball won't hurt an iron golem but alchemist fire will.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

How would you fix illusory wall, I wonder?

Give it the shadow subschool and a percent chance to act like a real wall, as though it were a Shadow Conjuration effect.

 

[Felon]

I present Freedom of Movement and Death Ward. FoM provide a wide range of immunities to a wide range of attacks (from grapples to a imagined sub-sect of spells), while DW renders the signature special attacks of an entire type of monsters impotent. There is only one spell that provides as powerful as an immunity, and that's Mind Blank. It's a steal at 4th level!

I propose that Freedom of Movement shall grant a capped bonus (suitably high, of course) to oppose grapple checks and SR to resist all spells is currently nullifies, while Death Ward should provide a Protection From Energy-style barrier, absorbing negative levels at 5 points per level.

I find this assessment of freedom of movement to be highly questionable. Having FoM grant SR doesn't work because bog spells like grease, entangle, and web don't allow SR. If anything FoM should be lower level, because it's pretty much the only reliable bog countermeasure in the game.

 

[Lanefan]

I, personally, think that 'raise dead' style spells and the teleportation school should all be moved up a level or two. If that removes them from typical casting level then perhaps they were too powerful for typical casting levels.

Raise Dead is fine; there needs to be a way for parties to do such in the field at some point.

To these (teleportation spells, raise dead spells, most alignment based spells, etc) we could likely add a variety of individual spells that could - and perhaps should - be bumped up a level or two (or even three in rare instances).

You'll run out of low-level spells completely if you keep this up...

, encumberment (Is there a spell that encumbers a N/PC as if carrying twice or however much more weight than they are carrying?)

Not that I know of, but there's about to be - at least in my game - as this is a fine idea and well worth stealing. It'll be something like:

Spell of Lading - MU-2 - Target Creature - Close range - 1 round/level - anything carried or picked up by target doubles in weight. Anything dropped or released by target immediately reverts to normal weight. If target is being carried or is picked up by someone or something else, target's carried items retain extra weight. Target's own weight, density, etc. does not change. Material component is a small lump of lead thrown at target, that vanishes en route.

There'd be a save, but it doesn't really fit well with 3e's Fort-Refl-Will categories as all those assume you're affecting the creature, where here you're just affecting what it carries. In 1e it'd be a simple save vs. spell.

Lanefan

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Web. It should be level 10. Then I'd never have to adjudicate another combat with web-casting spellcasters on both sides.

 

[Alceste]

And don't forget Conjuration also has the teleportation subschool and the best set of environment-controlling spells (Solid/Acid Fog, Evard's BT, Cloudkill, the Wall spells) along with Transmutation. Seriously, the amount of love given to Conj in 3.5 in just the core books is a bit much, and with non-core (Complete Arcane, I'm looking at you) sources it's way over the top.

I am less concerned about the schools of magic versus how effective the character type is. After the haste change and increases in SR in 3.5, Wizards/Sorcerers needed something to make them competitive on damage with two handed power attack. The single target ranged touch orb spells help a lot in this regard.

Btw, I agree that arc of lightning does not make any sense. It should be an evocation that checks SR.