The Problem with Goblinoids

[Slobber Monster]

In my campaign I've made Goblins the main race inhabiting the Underdark. They're a once-great civilization that has fallen into decline through infighting and a series of unsuccessful wars. They are a death obsessed culture whose cities of the living are built on top of mirror cities for the dead.

Bugbears are basically a mutation that affects about 1% of the goblin population, and I don't use Hobgoblins.

 

[mmadsen]

Game-mechanically, I'm compelled to replace the Monster Manual's first-level warrior goblins with first- or second-level rogues (wilderness rogues, actually). That makes a huge difference in how they play.

 

[Slobber Monster]

IMO using Rogue instead of Warrior takes them to CR 1/2 if you only give them mook gear, or to CR 1 if you give them full NPC equipment. For the latter, may I recommend a group of hit-and-run masterwork crossbow wielding goblins tossing thunderstones and using smokesticks makes for a nasty challenge against low level PC's.

 

[DMH]

When the Advanced Bestiary came out, I came up with an alternate version of the goblin and made all of them werebugbears (and removed bugbears as a seperate race). They never sleep and during the day they are bugbears that hunt the surface and at night they are goblins that mine.

 

[ajanders]

Goblin variants

One of my back Dragons has a variant race called the Gruach -- small black-furred fey. I've promptly adopted them as my new pet goblins.

One of my older campaigns has a greater barghest as a BBEG. His fiendish/half fiendish goblin/wolf/goblin werewolf brood is one of the major sources of bad-guys.
(One play not for people who may yoink this: half fiendish goblins are fine, half fiendish wolves are fine, werewolf goblins are fine. Half fiendish goblins riding half fiendish wolves and half-fiendish werewolf goblins are both over the top.)

 

[Samothdm]

Well, that's my own version of the goblin races. I'd be interested in hearing other people's modified goblins.

I basically gave them a "world building secret" thing that only they know (although they don't know that they know). All the other races believe one thing, but the goblins believe something else. Due to people's perceptions of goblins, however, no one has ever figured out that the goblins' view on this particular subject is different.

Basically, I view the goblins as the keepers of the world's lore (in the form of primitive rock carvings and such - stuff that doesn't disappear like people's memories or even papers and books can). They don't always know that they're keeping the lore. THey're just passing down stories to their children and teaching them to make the proper symbols and stuff. The thing is, all of the stuff is pure gold, from an information standpoint, that would be invaluable if anybody who knew what they were doing got ahold of it.

My plan is that someday the information will become available to the player characters.

I changed them from Size Small to Size Medium and adjusted their stats accordingly. They are available as player characters. Only one has played a Goblin so far, but he only shows up to our games sporadically.

Like every race in my world, there are the "assimilated" goblins and the "traditional" goblins. The traditionalists are xenophobic and are the only race in the world to still have a purely single-race nation (in the desert, patterned off of the old Sumerian and Babylonian city-states). The "assimilated" goblins live amongst humans and, like the assimilated elves, have adopted human customs (including religion). Since some of the other "assimilated" races haven't adopted the human religion, the goblins get to look down on those races. It's an interesting role-reversal.

Then again, my campaign is all wonky because it's mainly about race relations, preconceived notions, tolerance, and the politics of religion.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

This is a non problem

This is one of those problems that can be solved by either applying your own methods for differentiating the goblinoid types, or by not using the ones you find extraneous. If you think that Hobgoblins and Orcs are too similar from a background / niche standpoint, then pick the one you like and drop the other.

My own method of differentiation is run down as follows:

Orcs: Favor melee, 'run up and hurt them' brute force tactics. Smaller tribes, poorer equipment (leather / hide armors). Great respect for individual strength. Usually do not negotiate. Occasional raids are a nuisance to towns. Never take prisoners.

Hobgoblins: Favor ranged combat, prefer flanking / ambush type tactics. Larger tribes, better equipment (Scale mail type or comparable for melee). They will negotiate if its in there intrests. When Hobs go on the warpath, they are like locusts, stripping everything of value. My take prisoners

Goblins: Poor equip. Favor flanking / ambush tactics. They commit atrocities. If they negotiate, they will lie, and betray you as soon as its convenient. An a Hobgoblins just kills you, or maybe takes you prisoner. An Orc will kill you, maybe eat you. A Goblin will cook you one limb at a time. They will rape you to death, peel off your skin, and eat your flesh. If your lucky, they will do it in that order. Irredemably evil. Most likely to use BoVD content.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[mmadsen]

I changed them from Size Small to Size Medium and adjusted their stats accordingly.

Really? I consider their small size one of their defining features.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Warcraft Goblins are a bit different.

Iron Kingdoms Goblins are very different.

I love the gnoblars (I think they're called) in Warhammer and of course, the snotlings.

I guess I'm not having the same problem.

Then again, I don't like goblins are 'fey' type creatures, nor do I like gnomes that way so it seems that we're coming at it from different ends.

 

[ptolemy18]

Then again, my campaign is all wonky because it's mainly about race relations, preconceived notions, tolerance, and the politics of religion.

Hmm... That sounds interesting, actually...

(Although in my own campaign's experience, even when the PLAYERS recognize that I'm trying to make a point -- by having the monstrous race be sympathetic, perhaps -- they're inclined to be hack-and-slashish and have their CHARACTERS just go ahead and kill everybody. Oh well. Each playing group is different... )

Jason