The Rod of Seven Parts: Kauai Team OOC

[CanadienneBacon]

I'm about to head over to the IC to do up the next iteration of combat. We can discuss the rules issue(s) even though I intend to forward combat. No sense stopping play for this issue. For the purpose of this round only, Chev can (from the prone position) crawl five feet away without incurring an AoO. For the purpose of this round only, if Voadam aids Chev in Chev's withdrawl, Voadam will incur an AoO if Voadam drags Chev more than 5 feet.

Now, with that settled for the round, here are my questions regarding this particular situation.

Can someone prone move 5' without drawing an AoO? I want to clear a path for Chev if it will help.

Not normally no. Both standing up from prone and crawling 5 ft. as a move action each provoke attacks of opportunity.

Ambrus, do you have a PHB page number reference or an SRD quote to support the idea that crawling 5 ft draws an AoO? I checked the PHB this morning (pp 137, 144) and confirmed my belief that taking a 5 ft step never incurs an AoO. The section as I read it didn't specifically mention crawling per se, though. I'm inclined to allow a 5 ft crawl without drawing an AoO, personally. As an interesting aside purely out of curiousity, I could benefit from seeing something concrete regarding crawling, if you know of such a tidbit.

Regarding withdrawing, "If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal." (PHB 143) Because of the croc's 10-foot reach, withdrawing through a second threatened square will incur an AoO.

Under Move Action (see table 8-2), Moving a heavy object incurs an AoO. Chev could be considered a heavy object. Voadam might incur an AoO but Chev would not (as Chev is the one being moved). This assumes that Chev continues to lie prone, makes relatively little effort to hinder Voadam's retrieval, and makes no aggressive effort against the crocodile.

 

[CanadienneBacon]

XP has been calculated and will be sent out right now via e-mail. Please speak up if you do not receive your XP.

After the battle with the crocodile, Chev is now 3rd level. Congratulations! Since Chev reached 3rd level during August, he has been awarded 3rd-level active RP XP for the entire month of August. Basically, that's 300 vice 200 XP. Only a hundred more, but with 4th level a distant 6000, I guess every little drop in the bucket helps.

 

[SlagMortar]

Whew! That was quite the nasty creature!

Ambrus, do you have a PHB page number reference or an SRD quote to support the idea that crawling 5 ft draws an AoO?

I found crawling is here, just down from the move heading.
There is also a note under taking a 5 foot step that a creature with a speed of 5 feet can't take 5-foot step, and that you can not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed. "Crawl" isn't really a "form of movement" like "Swim" or "Fly", but I think those two things taken together mean you can't "take 5-foot step" while crawling. Being prone is bad, bad, bad.

 

[CanadienneBacon]

Thanks for the link, SlagMortar. The tidbit on crawling fairly well settles the issue. ie: crawling 5 ft is NOT the same as a 5-ft step or withdrawing.

 

[Ambrus]

I deal with improved grab (which draws the victim into the attacker's space) too often and normal grapple not often enough. I also immediately thought of the -20 one armed style action, but remembered that that was only for improved grab.

Uh. I'm not certain what you're referring to. As far as I can see the improved grapple feat doesn't have any effect on having to move into your opponent's square. I'm also not sure what you mean by the "-20 one armed style action". Sorry.

The tidbit on crawling fairly well settles the issue. ie: crawling 5 ft is NOT the same as a 5-ft step or withdrawing.

Also, keep in mind that withdrawing is a normally a full-round action. Since Chev declared that he was using the total defense action the previous round (normally a standard action) he wouldn't have been also able to withdraw even with Voadam's help (who was acting ahead of Chev). So even being dragged out of that first 5-ft. square would have provoked an AoO. At least that's my interpretation.

Nice combat BTW CB. Welcome back!

 

[Voadam]

Uh. I'm not certain what you're referring to. As far as I can see the improved grapple feat doesn't have any effect on having to move into your opponent's square. I'm also not sure what you mean by the "-20 one armed style action". Sorry.

That's because I was referring to Improved Grab, not Improved Grapple

Improved Grab

If a creature with this special attack hits with a melee weapon (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required.

Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents.

A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space. This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.

DMing a high level game with a druid who likes dire bear form I'm most familiar with this set of grapple rules.

 

[Ambrus]

That's because I was referring to Improved Grab, not Improved Grapple

Ah. I'd never noticed that that the improved grab rules were so different. Thanks for the heads up.

And now that I know they're about to change the whole system yet again. Muh.

 

[Mista Collins]

Ah. I'd never noticed that that the improved grab rules were so different. Thanks for the heads up.

And now that I know they're about to change the whole system yet again. Muh.

Yep, and one of those changes is getting rid of grapple. I think we may have found the reason.

 

[Mista Collins]

Chev is leveled up. I rolled another 9 on Invisible Castle for hit points. If we ever run into a giant croc again, he is going to need every single one.

 

[Strahd_Von_Zarovich]

Absent Notification

I'll be away to a scientific conference in Bulgaria from 2/9 to 9/9.
My internet Time will be limited.
I'll resume full posting in Monday 10/9.