The Romance of the River Kingdoms

[Zerith]

hmmm, could do what was done with the spirit type from spirit bloodline: when gaining the feat, give an option to take the added type(and everything that gos with it) along with a bonus.

the spirit type gives a single +2 to a stat, I'm kinda ify at the idea of making these feats each give a +2, if so a character could get a +6 to one stat. from the three bonuses
But at the same time I'm cross as to say one of these types is not worth as much as spirit.
Spirit spells are common enough, sure, but their all lower level spells, that are purely defensive and if you're chaotic, concordant, etc you're vulnerable to smites and all those good/evil law/chaos spells that apply to your type :/

Soo, how about giving these as options when taking the feat
Gain the corresponding type and gain:

Chaotic: re-roll one d20 Dice(that was not your own) chose which dice is used. [immediate action] 1/d
Concordante: force a roll(that is not your own), before it is resolved, to take 10 [immediate action] 1/d
Heavenly: Sharing light 2/d (spell like)[Caster level = character level]
Netherworld: Armor of darkness 1/d(spell like)[Caster level = character level]

 

[Dr Simon]

Zerith, you're very good at making me stop and think! I'm not fond of over-complex feats but I think the trade-off sounds reasonable; it's similar to some ideas I had for paladins based along choas/concordance/heaven/netherworld lines so I'll say give it a go and we'll see how it works out.

 

[Zerith]

well, I'm not planing on taking one of those feats too soon, I want to pick up spring attack. and that's two feats away ^_^;
but yeah, heavenly and netherworld do suffer from being excessively powerful at low levels while decaying as a character picks up more levels.
(two casts of a 3th level spell, or one 4th level spell, at level one is not to be taken lightly, but at level 20? it's kinda meh) I'll see if there's a better trade off for a character then spells but I want them to feel like their just adding to the theme that's already there.

But I have to admit it may turn out into giving the character what turn out to be like low level and shallow spell casing ability; taking a level of a spirit bloodline, a feat, and a occasionally used vulnerability to gain what amounts to gaining a domain's spells can be powerful on none casters, a warrior would love these gains, a wizard could get a few spells normally out of reach and a cleric would basically pick up a extra domain, but without none spell bonuses.

Casting a few spells without hurting their BaB or even taking an otherwise empty feat for spells that either allow them to hurt things they can't normally harm or augment their combative abilities? I can't say a full on barb would shy away from a one level hit and a feat to take up beast, fire or stone and heavenly or netherworld to get a small list of spells that grows with them, and even as it is, a +3-8 Deflection bonus for 10 minutes to 2 hours and 40 minuts is dang powerful.
but at the same time, Daylight and Darkness pale in comparison next to dice rerolling and taking a 10 for any single dice roll.
it's hard to say which is better for a combative class, but any caster will always go for the dice when meta gaming.
(the smites also make the feats better from classes like a barb or fighter) over all these feats are already strong and these trade offs being dependent on them might make them, and thus bloodline levels, common place

Alot of issues with the trade offs, but you're still becoming vulnerable to something you're otherwise impervious to and the gain needs to be something that lasts. (even more so given that as levels go up, there are more and more things that have abilities that target the vulnerability, at low levels smites are a lot more rare from what I can tell :/)

Well, I'm rambling now, and since we're already at the mid low levels the spells aren't too OP (not that I've some kind of expert)
Anyways, I'll post up the WiP latter :3

 

[Dr Simon]

I must admit I've never been entirely happy with the daylight and darkness options with Heavenly and Netherworld bloodlines - they're more of a placeholder until someone comes up with something a bit more interesting. They're basically inspired by the abilities of the planetouched, although in this setting I reckon you could easily use aasimar for someone with Heavenly ancestry and Tiefling for Netherworld ancestry if you really wanted those powers. Now we've moved to Pathfinder there are all sorts of sorcerer bloodline options as well that would fit.

What might also be good would be more spellcaster-oriented bloodline feats as well (as you rightly point out, smite is more practical for melee combat types). If the system used spell templates like Arcana Evolved I'd give something like that; might still be possible to do so, I'll have a think.

 

[Zerith]

Honestly, their really good feats even without the dice re-rolling and spells,
They all give
A smite that is comparable to a paladins, it's weaker then a PF one but we're talking about just one part of a feat next to a core class feature.
DR 2 vs the feat's counter part type: not going to use it too much, can't rely on it, but it can end up typing the tides.
+2 on interactive skills vs creatures of the feat's type: same as before, but the over all bonus is a bit large: this is 3 feats worth of skill improvements in limited circumstances, not weak, but given the limited natura of it not strong either (also, it dos not grow as PF skill feats do)

One of those three would be rather light for a feat, but all three are Nice.

meanwhile being able to reroll any roll, and CHOOSE which roll to use? this single part is better then most, if not all, existing feats, even one or two that lets you reroll and then force you to stick with the new roll regardless of if it's better or worse. extremely powerful as the 4th part of a feat.
So the problem with these feats might be that they have too much going on at once while you're trying to make each part noticeable

 

[Zerith]

[FONT=&quot]I think we could shave off the roll changing and spells from the feats, make the smite rise the DC of spells suffered by the smited from the smiter by ¼ character level(rounded towards 1) and then give them these options that add their respective cypher:

Chaotic: reroll one d20 1/d
Concordante: Take 10 on any d20 roll before it’s resolved 1/d#
Heavenly: force a roll(that is not your own), before it is resolved, to take 10 [immediate action] 1/d*
Netherworld: re-roll one d20 (that is not your own) [immediate action] 1/d*
[* a target my choose to make a will save to resist, DC = 10 +½ level + Cha mod; Alternatively the one using the ability can preempt the save roll by rolling a 1d20 + ½ their level + their Cha mod vs a DC of 10 + target’s will save. This is an option to save a lil time :3]
[#Alternatively, maintain that the character has to take 10 before rolling, but bump it up to 2/d or 3/d]

Cheesy reasoning for each:
Chaotic: You create your own destiny.
Concordante: You’re an avatar of order, your destiny is certain.
Heavenly: You oversee the destiny of others, and by your will you can keep them from moving astray from it.
Netherworld: Your mere presence can cause mischief, be it boon or bust, you tip the scale of destiny.

Your notice I buffed the Concordant roll modifier while nerfing the Chaotic one: the why is simple, while it’s commonly assumed that ‘10’ is average on a d20, a d20’s true average is 10.5, so Concordant’s roll is a smidge weaker on the average right away, but it’s a certain thing, that said, the Chaotic reroll can change a natural 1 into a natural 20.
At this point the two look about even, but you will only ever use the reroll when you need to, while the take 10 was something you have to do before knowing what you would have rolled, potently wasting it utterly every time; this way they two are more comparable. [feats that let you take 10 let you take 10 every time for what they let you take 10 on, regardless of what kind of roll their for]

Also note, I know it’s not said above, but let us just say a single roll can only be changed once, no having 5 ppl with netherworld burning the ability all at once for a 1 in 2 chance of a crit on their raging barb who has already burnt his chaotic reroll on the same roll (or have some kind of cheesy reroll war…)

[/FONT][sblock=Character W.I.P.]Zhakou


Human

Str: 16 +3 [5]    <+1 4th lvl, +1 Fire>
Dex: 16 +3 [5]    <+2 bloodline>
Con: 14 +2 [5]
Int: 12 +1 [5](-2)
Wis: 16 +3 [5](+2)
Cha: 10 
Move speed: 60’
Hit Points: 49

Saves[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]
Fort: 7  (5 base +2[Con])
Ref:  10 (7 base +3[Dex])
Will: 4  (1 base +3[Wil])

AC:          16 (10 +3 Dex, +1 Dodge)[/FONT] [FONT=Courier New]
Touch:       14 (10 +3 Dex, +1 Dodge)
Flat footed: 10 (10)

Cheetah[/FONT] [FONT=Courier New]
Str: 22 +6 [5](+6)<+1 4th lvl, +1 Fire>
Dex: 24 +7 [5](+8)<+2 bloodline>
Con: 18 +4 [5](+4)
Int: 12 +1 [5](-2)
Wis: 16 +3 [5](+2)
Cha: 10
Move speed:  80’
Hit Points:  55

Saves[/FONT] [FONT=Courier New]
Fort: 11 (5 base +6[Con])
Ref:  14 (7 base +7[Dex])
Will: 4  (1 base +3[Wil])

AC:          18 (10 +7 Dex, +1 Dodge)[/FONT] [FONT=Courier New]
Touch:       18 (10 +7 Dex, +1 Dodge)
Flat footed: 10 (10)


Attack:[/FONT]  [FONT=Courier New]
Human:-Unarmed: +7  1d3+3 19-20x2
Cheetah
-Bite:    +11 1d6+7    20x2
-Gore:    +11 1d6+7    20x2
-Claws:   +11 1d3+7    20x2
-Fullattack:
          +11 1d6+7    20x2
          +11 1d6+7    20x2
          +11 1d3+7    20x2
          +11 1d3+7    20x2


Feats[/FONT]  [FONT=Courier New]
Medium Animal form [1st Level]
Run                [2nd beast level]
Rarified Spirit    [3rd Level]
Dodge              [5th Level]

Traits[/FONT] [FONT=Courier New]
Melded Shapeshifting (nai-nek-chai)
Jaded

Special[/FONT] [FONT=Courier New]
Sprint (Animal form only)
Low Light Vision
Animal Form
Animal blood(can be targeted as an animal)
Shapechanger type
Spirit type


Languages: Spirit, Sylvan, Draconic, Low Imperial, and High Imperial[/FONT]  [FONT=Courier New]

Skills                Total   Rank     CS   Ability  ACP  Misc  [/FONT] [FONT=Courier New]Acrobatics              10/14  4       3       3/7   -0   +0
-Jump:                  22/34  ^       ^       ^      ^   +12/20
--Runing Jump           26/38  ^       ^       ^      ^   +16/24
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Appraise                01     0       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Bluff                   00     0       0       0          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Climb                   7/10   1       3       3/6   -0   +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Craft (          )      01     0       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Diplomacy               00     0       0       0          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Disable Device                 0       0       3/7   -0   +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Disguise                00     0       0       0          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Escape Artist           7/11   1       3       3/7   -0   +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Fly                     3/7    0       0       3/7   -0   +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Handle Animal                  0       0       0          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Heal                    03     0       0       3          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Intimidate              00     0       0       0          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Knowledge (Arcana)             0       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Knowledge (Dngnrng)            0       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Knowledge (Engnrng)            0       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Knowledge (Geography)          0       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Knowledge (History)            0       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Knowledge (Local)              0       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Knowledge (Nature)             0       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Knowledge (Nobility)           0       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Knowledge (Planes)             0       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Knowledge (Religion)           0       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Linguistics             04     3       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Perception              10     4       3       3          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Perform    (       )    00     0       3       0          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Profession (       )           0       0       0          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Ride                    7/11   1       3       3/7   -0   +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Sense Motive            03     0       0       3          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Sleight of Hand                0       3       3/7   -0   +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Spellcraft                     0       0       1          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Stealth                 10/14  4       3       3/7   -0   +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Survival                07     1       3       3          +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Swim                    7/10   1       3       3/6   -0   +0
[/FONT][FONT=Courier New]Use Magic Device        00     0       0       0          +0


Wish list
Boots of Striding and Springing 5.500
-*Bracers of armor              1.000
-*Studed leather armor +1       1.175
-*Mithral chain shirt +1        2.250
--Amulet of natural armor       2.000
---Campfire bead                  720
---Muleback cords               1.000
[*one or the other]

Items
Pseudodragons, 3                   600GP 21LB
Ioun Torchs, 3                     225GP
Noble’s outfit                      75GP  10LB*
-Acesseries                         95GP  
-Signet ring                         5GP 

[*Not counted towards encumbrance]

Load    Light   Medium   Heavy
Human   0-76    77-153  154-230
Cheetah 0-260   261-520 401-780[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

Bieograpy: A Nai-Nek-Chai who boasts of having innumerous names and that he has lived just as many times since the mythical times when the Nai-Hempashu walked among common man; Zhakou boasts even that he has a Nai-Hempashu as a literal grandfather.

He rarely gets into any kind of detail, about his numerous pasts, yet he wears a Signet ring that holds the worn-down depression of a large cat’s face, detailed inspection shows it clearly as a cheetah, but more mundane inspection can readily misinterpret as either a leopard or more simply a cat of no meaningful description; it’s an obscure and rare seal that has dotted parchments throughout history.
The seal has not been tied to any given family line, sometimes used by a noble (who uses it in addition to their family seal) but more commonly held and used by seemingly random wanderers; a thorough researcher may find two consistencies, that the only variables in the seal itself, from oldest to newest are those caused by age and were and not be the ring seal being duplicated or refaced, and more peculiarly, that the ones who have held it are Nai-Nek-Chai with burning golden eyes that can assume the form of a large and exotic cat.


When not taking up the mantle of one of the great cats, he tends to act the part of a youthful adult, or just a simple youth, who is kind and friendly, if initially defensive, while being indifferent to suffering; “The first hundred or thousand times I got worked up by anything, but now, however, I’m no longer bothered by mere mortal plight.”
Light and darkness, joy and misery, life and death, order and chaos, freedom and law, good and evil; all abstracts and all meaningless without their counterpart. If all is good all is normal, if all is evil, all is normal; Zhakou has understood this for a long time, and while he common works towards the ‘greater good’ he does not fret over it as he once had and many still do.
He has a tendency to act, and react, with pride in just about anything he dues and greatly enjoys games while commonly spicing them with bets

Zhakou, in his human form, appears to be more similar to a wild fey then a mundane human. His proportions are very lengthy, his shoulders narrow, large eyes moth small when closed, yet able to stretch into a grin that fills his face.
His irises are a particular sight; either appears like blazing and spiraled inferno that flickers into his pupils. During moments of calm they may appear as molten gold and during times of stress they may appear as a wall of flames veiled by a blackening screen of smoke.
His teeth are another, his canines are longer than normal and resemble fangs while his molars are also more fang like then normal, like those of a predatory animal.

Zhakou has seemingly avoided coming out of the wilds until only recently, and has been accompanied by three young Pseudodragons, Frillek, Drachs, and Frelan; who act as his voice, eyes, and ears.
While he is keen to take advantage of their services, he is intensely protective of the trio and takes on the role of an elder sibling who is not above lowering himself to silly and playful antics (commonly when displaying his annoyance at one of the trio and dispensing a ‘punishment’. While never harsh, and generally more of a game, the three tend to get the point).

When traveling the wilds the trio takes on the role of scouts, looking for prey animals to hunt and threats to avoid. With Zhakou around, and themselves to feed as well, smaller animals are not their favored prey, then have since taken to hunting larger games.[/sblock][FONT=&quot]

Yesh, Bio needs mo' work
[/FONT]

 

[Shayuri]

Thread ressurrection!

Just wanted to throw in here that the reason I used Acid Arrow instead of Scorching Ray, was because ongoing damage like that causes a caster to need concentration checks to cast spells during the duration.

It's a mechanic that doesn't come up too often, so I just want to bring it up here...in case the GM may have forgotten it. We don't see his rolls, so I get a little paranoid sometimes. (^_^)

 

[Dr Simon]

I did remember it, probably should have put a mention in the OOC section, but the IC part where the caster "fights back the pain to cast.." is supposed to imply that he (it) makes his concentration check.

Next round though he's got the ongoing damage and Mystal to contend with.

 

[Shayuri]

Doh! I am sorry I ever doubted you. *bows*

 

[Shayuri]

Holy cow...crazy times.

I look back, and I see that I'm the one who was up last in this. That makes me feel pretty bad. This year's been kinda rough on my gaming schedule, especially with Enworld being down for a long time there...but still.

Anyone want to try to get this off the ground again, or will the blood never wash off these dirty, dirty hands of mine?