The Stigma of D&D OR Help! I'm Stuck in the D&D Closet?

[nute]

Speak for yourself. Personally, I tend to think of Eric Clapton. Or my uncle the WW II veteran. As for wine afficionados...I tend to think of 30ish professionals and academics...because these are the people I know and have met who are wine lovers.

Exactly. You associate the hobby with the people you've met who share it. But without that personal experience, people tend to fall back on the stereotype.

My personal view is that, to eliminate a stereotype, you not only have to have people act in different ways against type (as in, not fit the mold of the classic "geek gamer" and show that all sorts of folks play D&D) - but you have to also work to eliminate the recognized stereotype. Not that the guy with the Doritos stains on his GENCON '97 t-shirt and the bag of D20s on his belt is a bad guy, or a loser, or anything like that - but he's what the public sees as the ambassador of the genre, because he's the most easily reduced to a unique cipher for the game.

It's all PR. A style of clothing might be unfashionable until people see lots of folks wearing it, then it becomes acceptable. Take men wearing earrings and long hair in the workplace. Used to be only acceptable if you were a dockworker or musician - now it's not unusual to see it in a business office from time to time. D&D is like that. Most people consider it "unfashionable", until it starts becoming widespread enough to change their minds. In the 80's and early 90's, TSR ended up dropping the ball on that score by encouraging the stereotype - even I'm still almost embarassed now when I look back at the ads for old D&D products. Nowadays, you look at the ads in a magazine or a comic book, and even if you're not a gamer - they look pretty cool. Gets more people interested, expands the fanbase, and by slow osmosis the game becomes more publicly understood and accepted.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

I can quite understand how you (the original poster) feel. I often have felt a bit nervous about admitting my hobby to anyone, because of a certain social stigma that it carries in some people's minds.

However, a bit of age and experience has taught me a valuable lesson: there will always be people who try to do or say things in order to "elevate" themselves from others (psychologically). It's basically a sort of elitist attitute, and it exists in the gaming world as much as it does in the real world. It's all part of that Holier than Thou/Geeker than Thou/Cooler than Thou/Smarter than Thou/Better than Thou/etc. mentality.

It'll never go away, but then again, it isn't worth much, either. It's a waste of time and energy to perpetuate it as it is to worry about defending yourself against it.

Hell, my g/f is a gamer, likes anything green (clothes, decorations, dice, Lantern, Arrow, etc.), and still still teases me for being a Texan (her family's originally from Massachucets, although she was born & grew up a bit in Georgia).

Personally, I'm overweight & quite the introvert. I'm not a good poster-child for the hobby. Then again, guess what?

Hi, I'm AFGNCAAP, and I have social anxiety disorder. I also happen to have hypothyroidism (hereditary--from my maternal grandmother's side), which doesn't help my metabolism/weight or my SAD any, either. On top of that, I'm pretty much allergic to anything that isn't food, animals, or medicine (mold, pollen, dust, etc.), & I happen to have been born & raised near SA, one of the worst places in Texas, much less the US, for anyone who has allergies like mine. The allergies alone have been a decent incentive for me not to "get out more."

I'm also nearing 30 (I'll hit that mark this year by the winter solstice), have a house, a M.A. in English, a very good and patient girlfriend of 5+ years, ridiculously good-hearted and supportive parents, and way too many cats. Things could be much worse.

I think that the stigma still gets to me sometimes, but honestly, I think it's the SAD kicking in (I've only been diagnosed with hypothyroidism & SAD since 2002--most likely, I've had this for quite some time but didn't know about it until recently).

By no means am I suggesting that you (the original poster) may have any medical issues anywhere near mine at all, but I did want to state my personal experience on the matter, and why I think that (in my case) such an issue bothered me so.

[snip]

Though I guess this is sort of a side note, I would like a more "baseline" rules book. From a setting design standpoint, it just seems like godsend. Basic classes and a ways to build new ones. Barebones skills and feats. Keep the spells simple. Get your basic weapons and armor. You can still go to your D and D Setting Book to get all the flavor you want. I guess I'm just a less-specifics, more flexibility type of guy. I'd rather have the big bucket of legos than the lego ship to piece together.

And although d20 fantasy is my thing, Dungeons and Dragons, to a certain degree, is not. I feel a more baseline rule book would encourage more creativity among devlopers, whether it's Wizards of the Coast or lil' or me at my computer. Easier to draw outside the lines when they're not there.

[/snip]

Well, though perhaps not to the very barebones degree that you may like to see, how about using the Generic Classes from Unearthed Arcana? More freedom for developing certain types of PCs, and less classes to work with. In additon to this, you could easily limit the spells available to Spellcasters, use onyl what you want out of the MM and other such resources, etc.

Then again, I was a big fan of the Generic classes when they appeared. I'm still working on more class-abilities-made-feat chains, PrCs made for use with the Generic classes, generic spells, & other such stuff to use with this rules variant.

 

[iblis]

One small comment:

I don't always think the stigma derives from geekiness/nerdiness. I sometimes get the impression that those not in the know regard the game as childish. Tell someone you play, and they react like you just told them you still sleep with your teddy bear. D&D to them is infantile nonsense that distracts you from more important things.

Thoughts?

Yes, definitely.

I personally agree with this statement too :

Power corrupts, but lack of power corrupts absolutely. - Adlai Stevenson

And that's not at anyone - it's not even to anyone in particular - but it is quoted here (in preference to more caustic selections) especially for those people in the world who, courtesy of their own internal power issues, resort to trashing others' lifestyles.

Phew. Right.

... Yeah well, maybe that's barely 2c worth, so hm... specifics, specifics... I suppose what I really mean is...

To those who think of roleplaying as childish : GROW UP!

Maybe if they thought of it as a combination of acting and writing and other such 'acceptably deviant' (???) behaviour, they'd give a little.

Feh.

 

[jmucchiello]

One small comment:

I don't always think the stigma derives from geekiness/nerdiness. I sometimes get the impression that those not in the know regard the game as childish. Tell someone you play, and they react like you just told them you still sleep with your teddy bear. D&D to them is infantile nonsense that distracts you from more important things.

When my parents bought me a 16 inch Winnie-the-Pooh dressed as Santa for my 19th birthday, I brought Pooh to college with me (my birthday was during winter break). Pooh sat on my bed for the rest of my college years and is still on my bed. That was 17 years ago. Now he shares the bed along with 8 other bears purchased for/with my wife. We like teddy bears. We do not, however, collect them. Collectable teddy bears are stiff and scratchy. A bear you cannot hug is not worth owning. Childish? Perhaps. But a pile of teddy bears can be very comforting when you are down (Either by embracing them or being buried under them). Sometimes you need to distract yourself from important things.

Agreed. A quick question for the "Dork Pride" group. When you're being interviewed for a job and they ask you "What do you do for fun?" Do you mention D&D? I sure as hell wouldn't. I think this is a fairly good example of the real word Umbran mentions. I'm not going to risk not getting a job just to be an "out of the closet" gamer.

Yes. (And I'm talking about computer programming jobs here, not industry jobs.) At the first programming job I ever got, the HR woman asked that question. I answered and she said, "Really? We have a programmer here who writes for RPGs." Turned out to be Robert Schroeck, author of several GURPS books and a fellow whose 1e AD&D game I joined a few years later.

Being a legend in your own mind must be blissful

Well, if you're going to have delusions they may as well be the fun kind.

 

[buzz]

Then again, I was a big fan of the Generic classes when they appeared. I'm still working on more class-abilities-made-feat chains, PrCs made for use with the Generic classes, generic spells, & other such stuff to use with this rules variant.

You really need to check out Grim Tales, in that case. Teflon Billy called it "GURPS d20", if that gives you an idea...

 

[Dogbrain]

When my parents bought me a 16 inch Winnie-the-Pooh dressed as Santa for my 19th birthday, I brought Pooh to college with me (my birthday was during winter break).

When I went to college, I brought along my first teddy bear, given to me when I was scant days old. It sat in a prominent place in my dorm room. It's amazing just how many young women find that sort of thing so very adorable .

 

[Dogbrain]

When my parents bought me a 16 inch Winnie-the-Pooh dressed as Santa for my 19th birthday, I brought Pooh to college with me (my birthday was during winter break).

When I went to college, I brought along my first teddy bear, given to me when I was scant days old. It sat in a prominent place in my dorm room. It's amazing just how many young women find that sort of thing so very adorable .

 

[Dogbrain]

When my parents bought me a 16 inch Winnie-the-Pooh dressed as Santa for my 19th birthday, I brought Pooh to college with me (my birthday was during winter break).

When I went to college, I brought along my first teddy bear, given to me when I was scant days old. It sat in a prominent place in my dorm room. It's amazing just how many young women find that sort of thing so very adorable .

 

[Rel]

After having read this discussion (all of which I think is interesting in its own right), I'm wondering if we've really helped out the original poster. Because this seems to be a very personal issue and, while interesting, our various points of view won't necessarily sit well with the OP.

Any given individual who is a gamer has, from my point of view, three options:

1) Don't game. (I suppose this actually means you're a "non-gamer" or "ex-gamer" at this point)

2) Game on the sly

3) Game in the open


If your answer to those options is "I don't want to not game. I don't want to have to hide it. And I don't want to do it openly and suffer the judgements of others." then you need to figure out which one makes you the least uncomfortable and do that.

 

[resscane]

I work for as a trader , stocks and bonds, where I swear people would admit to being a pedophile before admit to playing D&D. At an office party a couple years ago, my wife started busting my balls and called me a DnD geek in front of the whole trading desk. This was 5 years ago. I still get abused, sometimes brutally. I kinda wish i coulda stayed in the closet.., But you know what. I've started teaching my kids DnD, and I love it more than ever.