D&D 5E Warlock group think

[yakuba]

Hexblade is both ridiculously overpowered and thin on theme. It's a mess.

IMO this is only true in a hack and slash campaign. The Hexblade patron yields zero out of combat utility or capability as compared to the other patrons. Even the fiend back is better in that sense. The Hexblade is nice for someone who wants to build a combat warlock, but if that makes by far the best patron choice then I don't know what you where trying to say in your OP or in this post:

Personally I think a strength of Warlocks is to be able to participate in all 3 pillars. A well rounded invocation selection allows them to be relevant most of the time.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

That's not how it works. The attacks don't matter, just the hits. If you get attacked 5 times and get hit 5 times with Mage Armour up then it did nothing.

If you get attacked 5 times and get hit 5 times with Shield AND the attacks were too good for Shield to be effective then at least you didn't waste a slot.

Sometimes Mage Armour will protect from 1 hit. Many times it will do nothing. It will rarely protect from 2 or more hits.

Shield will (almost) always protect from 1 hit. Sometimes it will protect from 2 or more hits as it lasts until your turn.

I'm not sure that I get this. Don't you ever get hit, try to use Shield spell to block it, but the roll was high enough to hit you even with the AC bonus from the shield spell?

 

[ad_hoc]

IMO this is only true in a hack and slash campaign. The Hexblade patron yields zero out of combat utility or capability as compared to the other patrons. Even the fiend back is better in that sense. The Hexblade is nice for someone who wants to build a combat warlock, but if that makes by far the best patron choice then I don't know what you where trying to say in your OP or in this post:

I disagree with this. The other Patrons yield little in the way of out of combat utility. That mostly comes from invocations and spells.

The Hexblade provides a lot of combat ability so the Warlock can focus more on the invocations and spells that will help with exploration and social interaction.

In a standard 5e campaign, and indeed in D&D in general there will be combat.

Having telepathy to 30ft is not the game changer here for the other pillars.

I'm not sure that I get this. Don't you ever get hit, try to use Shield spell to block it, but the roll was high enough to hit you even with the AC bonus from the shield spell?

You get to know the roll before you have to choose. Now, on a close roll you could make a mistake because you do not know the enemy's modifier which is why it is almost always guaranteed rather than 100%.

 

[Iry]

Silent Image is not for casting in combat.

Silent Image can be amazing in combat! Shroud your party with the image of opaque fog: your party can see through it just fine and the bad guys cannot. That's instant advantage for you and disadvantage for them. Similarly, create the image of a wall between you and them. Once again your party can see through it, and the bad guys cannot. Create multiple fake members of your party, forcing the bad guys to waste time attacking one that isn't real. Create the illusion of pits and spikes, manipulating enemy movement until they realize the ruse. Heck, you can even make a bad guy waste an attack of opportunity or by making the illusion of your party member moving away from them.

Basically, any clever trick you can think of probably has combat applications, especially at the beginning of combat and especially against enemy archers. 5E places a lot of emphasis upon many smaller encounters, and that's exactly the kind of situation that Silent Image is really strong. Sure, there will always be some enemies that have blindsight or otherwise automatically see through illusions, but it's just one invocation. You have others (and cantrips) for those times.

And the really dirty thing? You can cast Silent Image over and over again every round, as long as you mix up your tricks and stay creative. You can go 3-4 rounds like that before the bad guys realize that /everything/ is an illusion and start disbelieving you automatically.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

You get to know the roll before you have to choose. Now, on a close roll you could make a mistake because you do not know the enemy's modifier which is why it is almost always guaranteed rather than 100%.

This strikes me as a rather table-specific ruling. If your DM tells you the roll that hit you, I can see why this would increase the effectiveness of the shield spell in your group.

 

[SuperTD]

This strikes me as a rather table-specific ruling. If your DM tells you the roll that hit you, I can see why this would increase the effectiveness of the shield spell in your group.

I think it's technically a house rule, but it's incredibly common considering how many GMs don't hide their rolls, or use Roll20 where rolls are generally visible to everyone. I also think it makes the spell fairer, as otherwise it's just a random guessing game as to whether the spell is of any use.

 

[ad_hoc]

This strikes me as a rather table-specific ruling. If your DM tells you the roll that hit you, I can see why this would increase the effectiveness of the shield spell in your group.

I argue that it is the default.

Hiding rolls is the houserule. Nothing in the rules say that rolls are hidden.

I often roll behind a screen because I use a screen and it is easier. If a player has something like Shield though I will announce the roll. It's only fair.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I think it's technically a house rule, but it's incredibly common considering how many GMs don't hide their rolls, or use Roll20 where rolls are generally visible to everyone. I also think it makes the spell fairer, as otherwise it's just a random guessing game as to whether the spell is of any use.

I'd regard it as a ruling rather than a house rule: Its not changing any existing rule because there aren't any existing rules about whether the DM should announce their rolls.
Hence just something that every DM has to decide for themselves.
I think Shield spell and . . . Cutting Words from the Lore Bard? are the times when that sort of thing becomes important.

In the games that I've been in, I don't think that any of them have had the DM announce their rolls. However only one was a definite no. Some of the others would probably have done so if requested.

 

[Blue]

That's not how it works. The attacks don't matter, just the hits. If you get attacked 5 times and get hit 5 times with Mage Armour up then it did nothing.

If you get attacked 5 times and get hit 5 times with Shield AND the attacks were too good for Shield to be effective then at least you didn't waste a slot.

Sometimes Mage Armour will protect from 1 hit. Many times it will do nothing. It will rarely protect from 2 or more hits.

Shield will (almost) always protect from 1 hit. Sometimes it will protect from 2 or more hits as it lasts until your turn.

The only thing that matters is the number of hits turned into misses.

For one spell slot of mage armor, that's 15% of attacks. Using the average 65% change to hit, that 9.75% per attack. But that one spell slot will last for 8 hours.

For one spell slot of Shield, that's 25% of attacks. With the average 65% that's 16.25%. Shield is NOT omnipotent in turning hits into misses, it does it less that half the time with the standard 50% chance to hit.

So, with only one attack per combat coming towards the caster, so 6-8 attacks per day, one slot used for Mage Armor turns more hits into misses then one slot used for Shield.

If you want to disagree, please show your math.

Then why are you arguing?

Because you seem to be saying that Agonizing Blast and Hex are no good, and I'm saying they can have their place because in combat you have a limited amount of resources to do actions outside EB damage, if you are going to be spending equal or more time with EB than with any other action you might as well invest some resources into making it better.

 

[Caliban]

Would love to hear more about how that is going Caliban !

How do you find your success in that role ? Are you finding it fun ? What levels are you all and what are the other party members builds ? How do they work with you / synergize with you in that role ? What do you find are the most effective strategies and what do you find doesn't work so well ? Was it your intention to be in the that role and did you build accordingly with that in mind from the start or did you end up in that role for some reason ?

Overall it works pretty well, but it requires you to play a lot of attention and micromanage your abilities for best effect. For my preferred build, the idea is to get out there and absorb damage. Dealing damage is a lower priority - you are there to block the way to your main damage dealers and not die.

I've played 5 or 6 "tank role" characters with various levels of warlock over the last three years. It's hard to get away from that first level of Fighter for Heavy Armor proficiency, Con save proficiency, Fighting Style, and Second Wind.

Most of them have been Fighter 1/Warlock X (Fiend patron/Blade Pact), with a high Str/Con and only a 14 Charisma. Use Armor of Agathys combined with Blade Ward and Heavy Armor Master at low levels to preserve the Temp HP of the Armor of Agathys as long as possible. By the time those run out you are hopefully able to reduce something to 0 HP and gain more Temp HP. Eventually pick up Great Weapon Master so that you do enough damage that you can't be ignored. Only a few spells are devoted to damage, most are utility/defense - Hex, Misty Step, Darkness, Dispel Magic, Counterspell, Fly, Dimension Door, and eventually Wall of Fire (with Repelling Blast instead of Agonizing Blast so you can knock enemies into the wall). I do take Eldritch Blast, but it is mainly for when they can't get into melee with their opponent (kind of a magical replacement for Javelins).

I prefer Blade Pact for flavor reasons (and the second attack), but it can work just as well with other pacts, especially if you go Fighter or Paladin 5 for the second attack.

But one caveat - most of the games I've played these characters in haven't gone past level 10. My highest level one is an Adventure League character who is Fighter 8(Eldritch Knight)/Warlock 7 (Fiend/Pact of Chain) with a Legendary Greatsword and Belt of Fire Giant Str.