D&D 5E Warlock, Pact of the Blade, Melee

[Dausuul]

I'm wondering on Eldritch Blast. It says more beams are added as you reach higher levels ... but it never says it has to be warlock levels. Same with Thirsting Blade. It asks for 5th level.

I'm just wondering about this because I'm tempted in taking a dip into paladin at second level, or a fighter dip instead. I'm going with Crossbow Expert, so it's a tough choice.

5E seems to have done away with the concept of caster level. Your reading is correct: You get another beam when you hit level 5, even if you're a warlock 1/fighter 4. Likewise, you qualify for thirsting blade at 5th level total.

On the other hand, ability score boosts are now class features rather than a universal benefit, so dipping will delay your access to them.

Also, I highly recommend putting your first level into fighter or paladin, and then going warlock, instead of the other way around. That gives you heavy armor proficiency, plus an extra hit point. (I don't understand why WotC decided it was a good idea to make the order in which you take class levels matter, but if they were going to do it, they should have imposed similar penalties on every class. As it is, you always want to get your fighter/rogue levels first, so you don't miss out on key proficiencies.)

 

[trentonjoe]

You're missing the extra d10+3 damage you get to Eldritch Blast at Character level 5 and 10. ( five and ten, right folks?)

Yeah I got that.

At 1-11 the melee and range are essentially the same. At 12th the split because the EB'er keeps getting better and more rays but the melee guy only gets his CHR bonus to damage and is stuck on 2 attacks.

So at 12th level the range guy has three EB bolts doing 1d10+5 and the melee guy has two attacks doing 1d12+(8-10).

What I am saying is that the melee guy is essentially even in damage before 12th level and then behind in damage after 12th level.

Is there some way to make the melee guy more effective? Am I missing something?

 

[Evenglare]

Yeah I got that.

At 1-11 the melee and range are essentially the same. At 12th the split because the EB'er keeps getting better and more rays but the melee guy only gets his CHR bonus to damage and is stuck on 2 attacks.

So at 12th level the range guy has three EB bolts doing 1d10+5 and the melee guy has two attacks doing 1d12+(8-10).

What I am saying is that the melee guy is essentially even in damage before 12th level and then behind in damage after 12th level.

Is there some way to make the melee guy more effective? Am I missing something?

Again, you aren't thinking about your other options available. Specifically armor of agathys. If you get up close and personal That armor is going to help you deal damage by getting hit. Melee is good because if you have a mage hunter on your ass then he doesn't get to make an opportunity attack on you if you were to be in melee and cast that EB. Also keep in mind you get to change your pretty much whenever you want with your pact so if you have foresight to what you might be fighting, you can get a slashing, piercing or bludgeoning weapon they may be weak to. It's situational but there are clear advantages IMO.

 

[TheSethGrey]

Divine smite is poorly worded. There's no such thing as a "paladin spell slot" any more. Unlike 3E, you don't track spell slots separately by class in 5E--if you're a multiclass paladin/wizard, you have one set of spell slots, which you can use for paladin or wizard spells as you see fit. And since neo-Vancian means you don't decide what spell goes in a slot until the moment of casting, you can't even use "What spell do you have prepared in that slot?"

The only class whose slots are tracked separately is the warlock. But even warlock slots can be used for paladin spells, so you could argue they should be usable. I'd just prepare searing smite and not worry about it. You'll average about the same damage (the ongoing damage makes up for using a d6 instead of a d8), and setting people on fire with your attacks is a very warlock thing to do.

That's where you're wrong, there are Paladin Spell slots, the spell slots you get as a Paladin, of course they go away as soon as you Multiclass in favor for shared Spell slots, with the exception of Warlock spell slots which come from Pact Magic. There in lies the problem, since it states you need to use Paladin spell slots (Or the mix of spell slots given if you Multiclass with a spell caster) you cannot use Warlock spell slots to Smite, since Smite is not a spell.

That being said just go and use what you suggested Searing Smite, it's a spell, you smite with it, it hurts. The real shame is that you can't cast Banishing Strike without having a fifth level Paladin spell slot.

 

[trentonjoe]

Again, you aren't thinking about your other options available. Specifically armor of agathys. If you get up close and personal That armor is going to help you deal damage by getting hit. Melee is good because if you have a mage hunter on your ass then he doesn't get to make an opportunity attack on you if you were to be in melee and cast that EB. Also keep in mind you get to change your pretty much whenever you want with your pact so if you have foresight to what you might be fighting, you can get a slashing, piercing or bludgeoning weapon they may be weak to. It's situational but there are clear advantages IMO.

Is armor or someone a concentration spell? I was planning on going hex and either hellish rebuke or burning hands as my spells. Not sure the 5 damage of the armor spell is worth it.

 

[Dausuul]

That's where you're wrong, there are Paladin Spell slots, the spell slots you get as a Paladin, of course they go away as soon as you Multiclass in favor for shared Spell slots, with the exception of Warlock spell slots which come from Pact Magic. There in lies the problem, since it states you need to use Paladin spell slots (Or the mix of spell slots given if you Multiclass with a spell caster) you cannot use Warlock spell slots to Smite, since Smite is not a spell.

That being said just go and use what you suggested Searing Smite, it's a spell, you smite with it, it hurts. The real shame is that you can't cast Banishing Strike without having a fifth level Paladin spell slot.

Divine smite says nothing about "the mix of spell slots given if you multiclass with a spellcaster." It says "paladin spell slots," period. If paladin spell slots go away when you multiclass, then you lose the ability to divine smite.

I stand by what I said: The concept of "paladin spell slots" no longer makes any sense in 5E. It'd be like an ability which triggered when you lost paladin hit points; how do you distinguish your paladin hit points from the rest of your hit points? A spell slot is a spell slot. Warlocks have special rules for recovering certain spell slots, but the slots themselves function exactly the same.

My guess is this is simply an oversight; somebody wrote "paladin spell slot" without thinking. (It doesn't look to be a major balance issue, since you can use searing smite and it does roughly the same thing.) Otherwise they need to define what constitutes a "paladin spell slot," because there is no clear definition right now. Unless there is someplace in the rules that I missed, where they define what "[class] spell slot" means?

 

[Evenglare]

Is armor or someone a concentration spell? I was planning on going hex and either hellish rebuke or burning hands as my spells. Not sure the 5 damage of the armor spell is worth it.

I'm assuming the spell is going to be cast at around 5th level which case you are getting 25 HP and dealing 25 damage. That's a pretty damn good amount of damage that's unavoidable (unless they have cold resistance or something)

 

[Otakkun]

Is armor or someone a concentration spell? I was planning on going hex and either hellish rebuke or burning hands as my spells. Not sure the 5 damage of the armor spell is worth it.

5 temp hp & 5 ice damage while the temp hp is still up is really lame. However at level 5 it turns into 15 & 15, which combined with damage resistance from Blade Ward turns into a very interesting endeavour.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Likewise, you qualify for thirsting blade at 5th level total.

I disagree. If this was how it worked, you could go whatever 18/warlock 2 and get max-level invocations with no investment in the class.

 

[Otakkun]

I'm assuming the spell is going to be cast at around 5th level which case you are getting 25 HP and dealing 25 damage. That's a pretty damn good amount of damage that's unavoidable (unless they have cold resistance or something)

You'll get that at 9th level. IMO at 5th level with 15/15 it's already good enough to be one of your 2 spells you'll be using per fight. At lower levels Fiendish Vigor is the invocation to go to for temp HP.