What DO you DO for... Fighters?

[monboesen]

I let fighters waive attribute requirements on fighter bonus feats.

For instance a fighter in my games can choose Combat expertise with one of his fighter bonus feats even if his intelligence is lower than 13.

 

[Storyteller01]

What else does this skill do in your campaign. Do you have a write-up of it anywhere?

Not an official write up, since only one player in my group has played a fighter, and he didn't stay with us long (rather annoying, that). So far, it's had mostly NPC use, and it's becoming the fighter's version of the bard's Perform skill (one skill; many uses)...

To date, it's given minor bonuses to combat if preplanned, depending on the type of combat. Ambushes may get a bonus to initiative, defending in a siege may give bonuses to fortification, bonus cover may be given for base camp against snipers when setting down for the night, etc. Nothing set in stone, the bonuses aren't large enough to be game breaking, and large amounts of time are needed to make it effective.

In combat (not planning it), it's mostly used to counter feints, tumbling, and Hide checks for snipers after their initial attack (if I were that sniper, where would I be hiding??). I converted the OA Iaijutsu skill for ranged weapons, and a ranger in the group has the skill. It's helped immensely in keeping NPC fighters alive (no range penalties ).

I developed it during 3.0 (the great nebulous knowledge rolls), and I never bothered to convert to 3.5. I don't have a lot pinned down.

 

[Storyteller01]

Mostly new feats.
Add Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) as a class skill (for war leader types).
Grant Weapon Finesse and Expertise at first level instead of armor proficiency.
Wacky combat maneuvers (a la Book of Iron Might and Iron Heroes).

I particularly like the arcane combat feat that launches the opponents twice the damage received in feet, straight up.

 

[Nyaricus]

Not really overkill.

Firstly, it appears as overkill, but isn't really. It just an attempt to keep the fighter class interesting throughout all 20 levels, in competition with the mages/clerics of the world, and specifically to combat all the PrC's which grant new shiny abilities every level.

What does a fighter do? He does nothing else but fight. He gets his thrilling two skill points per level. "Jump and Climb? w00t! and at 8th level, I can acquire boots of flying and never use those skills again!"

By core rules, Fighters gain less feats than wizards do spells: the counter argument being, "but spells don't last all day!" Which is only partially true, as they can at higher levels. Secondly, the feats are seldomly such that they are always relevant to the situation at hand. Instead, a great many are situational. Improved Grapple, isn't going to get used every fight, unless you decide to really specialise along this line.

By the core rules, there are some really dead levels for fighters:
5th (+1 BAB, +2 skills, +d10 hp.... must take hours to level up).
7th (same)
11th (same)
13th (same)
17th (same)
19th (same)

And that is counting the bonus feat every third level, which everyone gets, as an "exciting" level.

Okay, that is fair enough - I'd just try to do something a little more original with those 'dead' levels - like add in that Warriors Spirit ability from above. I dunno, I guess I think there's only so much flavour to be squeezed from a pile of bonus feats.

I have strived for all classes to receive something iconic for their class at each level.

One reason that fighters in 3.5 are especially weak choices for players after level 4 because there are prestige classes which give stuff away every level. The easiest way to compensate for this, and to attract players to at least consider staying on the straight and narrow, is not to ban all PrCs outright, nor weaken them, but to make sure that each class is attractive as an option in its own right. True spellcasters are always attractive: they gain new spell levels every second level, always gain access to new toys (more spells). As it stands today in core, the poor fighter is the least attractive.

Actually, I think the Monk is the least attractive class - although this is simply due to flavour and not mechanics in and of itself (someone from WotC, however, REALLY needs to ninja-kick that class into Oriental Adventures though). Anyways, I can see your rational in this, but I'd just do something a little different in my game. Tomayto, tomahto IOWs.

 

[Nyaricus]

Now what would be awesome is to have that in a campaign which already gives everyone one feat per level. Think of all the featy goodness!

Actually, I have taken the "middle path" and give one at every odd-numberd level - 1, 3, 5, etc. My players love it 'cause it gives them way more wicked options to choose from.

I let fighters waive attribute requirements on fighter bonus feats.

For instance a fighter in my games can choose Combat expertise with one of his fighter bonus feats even if his intelligence is lower than 13.

That's another *great* idea that is so yoinked for my games! Probably I'd let them treat ability scores as if they were 2 points higher - so that way a fighter with 15 dex could get Improved TWF fighting, but not Greater, which I think is fair

Cheers!

 

[green slime]

Okay, that is fair enough - I'd just try to do something a little more original with those 'dead' levels - like add in that Warriors Spirit ability from above. I dunno, I guess I think there's only so much flavour to be squeezed from a pile of bonus feats.

I'd rather stick to the generic idea of feats and let the player decide and focus his character as he wishes along the intent of the original game design, myself. Nothing says those Warrior Spirit abilities can't be translated into feats that are made available to Fighters alone, at certain preset levels.

Actually, I think the Monk is the least attractive class - although this is simply due to flavour and not mechanics in and of itself (someone from WotC, however, REALLY needs to ninja-kick that class into Oriental Adventures though).

IMO, the biggest drawback to the Monk is its predictability. There really isn't much else to synergise with, or a lot of customization possibilities.

Anyways, I can see your rational in this, but I'd just do something a little different in my game. Tomayto, tomahto IOWs.

And until I join WotC's DnD ninja-police death-squad, you are welcome maintain that illusion of choice. Then I'll come knocking on your door, unplug your PC, and exorcise the heresies from your mind!!

 

[Arkhandus]

You may be more pleased with the Aurelian monk, when I get around to finishing some final details and posting it on my thread. Or maybe you just meant above that you prefer to use feats to handle everything, green slime. *shrug*

*breaks out the chainsaw and maniacally hacks away at his threadjack, until all that remains is a tattered scrap*

 

[Tinker Gnome]

I have found that Fighters are pretty well balanced despite what a lot of threads say about them. They do what they are supposed to do well.

 

[green slime]

You may be more pleased with the Aurelian monk, when I get around to finishing some final details and posting it on my thread. Or maybe you just meant above that you prefer to use feats to handle everything, green slime. *shrug*

Feats for fighters, yes, not for monks. I found your tidbits on monks interesting, but we should probably start another thread for that...

 

[Nyaricus]

I'd rather stick to the generic idea of feats and let the player decide and focus his character as he wishes along the intent of the original game design, myself. Nothing says those Warrior Spirit abilities can't be translated into feats that are made available to Fighters alone, at certain preset levels.

True, nothing does say that - but I think that the fighter has so few magical options open to him (read: none, other than magic items) that to get a passive bonus liek that, just from taking levels in fighter, is a really good 'keeper' factor. JMHO, YMMV, and all that

IMO, the biggest drawback to the Monk is its predictability. There really isn't much else to synergise with, or a lot of customization possibilities.

Well, there are (admittantly) some nice fighting-school choices in UA and online on the SRD, which I've allowed one of my players use before.

And until I join WotC's DnD ninja-police death-squad, you are welcome maintain that illusion of choice. Then I'll come knocking on your door, unplug your PC, and exorcise the heresies from your mind!!

"I'm taking the blue pill!"

Anyways, since there has ben a bit of thread-jacking in regards the the monk class (arkhandus, no worries), here's my new What Do you Do for... Monks? thread. Enjoy