What do you think of my mod to the Language Skills...

[Jontu Kontar]

I am thinking of modifying the rules of D20 Modern for more verisimilitude how I experienced learning German. Specifically, I am going to modify Speak Language and Read/Write Language so that your rank in a specific language effects how well you can use other skills (see below).

1-5 - Basic Grammar
Generally you understand the basic syntax of a language and with time you can come up with some complex constructions. People would recognize you as a tourist. For any check that requires you come up with something instantly in this language you have a -4 penalty.

6-10 - Advanced Grammar
Generally you understand more advanced syntax of a language and you can come up with complex constructions with some ease. People would recognize you as a decent speaker of the default form of a language (eg High German; not a dialect). For any check that requires you to come up with something instantly in this language you have a -2 penalty.

11-15 - Fluency
You fully understand the syntax and several dialects of a language. Most people would recognize you as a native speaker. You have no penalty to speak or read/write this language.

16-20 - Advanced Fluency
You fully understand the syntax and /all/ of the dialects of a language. People would recognize you as a native speaker of any dialect that you claim. You have a +2 bonus speak or read/write this language.

I am intending on applying the penalty/bonus to the following skills: Bluff, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Research. (As per par if you can take 20 on a skill you probably won't have much of a problem.) Also, you would be considered to have a 15 in your native language. (The reason for this is that being in the farm country of Iowa, I would be hard put to sound like a southerner or someone from the heart of New York. Thus, I am not fluent in /all/ dialects.)

I was curious what opinions you all have on this kind of modification.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

(The reason for this is that being in the farm country of Iowa, I would be hard put to sound like a southerner or someone from the heart of New York. Thus, I am not fluent in /all/ dialects.)
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Well, few people can duplicate a dialect, but can often understand them easy enough. I have done some minor travelling, but to different points of the U.S., and I never ran into a problem.

As for your idea in general- it certainly makes the matter more complicated. How often do you plan this to come up? If a lot, then are you considering giving more skills points to invest towards languages? (Like 1/2 the int bonus each level- or something along those lines, but only for languages.)

It is an interesting approach to the issue, but in my modern campeigns- I like to keep things simple. Either one can handle a language or not.

SD

 

[DanMcS]

Nope, don't like it. The languages system is actually overweighty pointwise as it is now. You shouldn't have to take another skill to read french, german, latin, etc, if you speak and read English natively and have speak language in the others. Maybe a 'speak' skill for each language, and then a 'read' for different alphabets (only for languages you comprehend, obviously).

On another note, fluency isn't the same as being a native speaker- you'll probably still have an accent, even if you're fluent. Passing as a native should be a higher level than fluency.

 

[Jontu Kontar]

Thanks!

To Sagan Darkside:

As far as the dialect thing goes I was referring to duplicating the dialect in speech. Working for the past 4 years in telemarketing I have easily learned to understand a variety of people. However, I still wouldn't be able to speak like them or accurately reproduce the nuances of each dialect (which would be necessary in Bluff or Intimidate).

I actually intended to make taking a second language more onerous because learning a second language is never easy.

To DanMcS:

Actually, a friend of mine (and potential PC) made the same point and it does bear some thought. The problem is creating a framework of rules around that. If I did as you recommended I would have to sub-divide the written languages. Unfortunatley, I don't know enough to do so correctly.

 

[DanMcS]

You might address several concerns at once. Um, make it a 4 rank system, not 20, because right now, a character couldn't be fluent in his native language until 8th level, and 4 ranks might be more reasonable skill point wise. So the ranks would be 1=Basic, 2=Advanced, 3=Fluent, and 4=Native Speaker. Then say you can read the language if you have at least a 2 in it.

 

[JPL]

Personally, I'd do something like 1 rank = accent, 2 ranks = no accent.

Very appropriate for spy games.

 

[Jontu Kontar]

Reply to DanMcS...

You might address several concerns at once. Um, make it a 4 rank system, not 20, because right now, a character couldn't be fluent in his native language until 8th level, and 4 ranks might be more reasonable skill point wise. So the ranks would be 1=Basic, 2=Advanced, 3=Fluent, and 4=Native Speaker. Then say you can read the language if you have at least a 2 in it.

Actually, I noted in the last full paragraph of my origional post, that you are considered to have 15 ranks in your own language for that very reason. (It would be kind of silly not being able to speak your own language well )

I might though consider that you have half your rank in read/write if you have speak and vice versa. That may be a work around but I will have to ponder that one.

 

[Mistwell]

There are a dozen or so languages in D&D, while literally hundreds of languages in d20 Modern. Why would you want to further burden your PCs with forcing them to spend huge amounts of skill points just to master ONE additional language? Particularly given that in some countries, like Switzerland, it is common to be fluent in 5 languages even as a child? I'd say you are doing your PCs a disservice by mucking with the language rules to the extent you propose.

In addition, faking an accent is a bluff check, not a language check.

 

[Falanor]

Its similar to what is in Kingdoms of Kalamar's Players Guide. Not bad at all.

 

[Jontu Kontar]

There are a dozen or so languages in D&D, while literally hundreds of languages in d20 Modern. Why would you want to further burden your PCs with forcing them to spend huge amounts of skill points just to master ONE additional language? Particularly given that in some countries, like Switzerland, it is common to be fluent in 5 languages even as a child? I'd say you are doing your PCs a disservice by mucking with the language rules to the extent you propose.

I'm not unwilling to allow a character to start out with a /few/ "Native Languages" depending upon their character background. That is actually part of why I am thinking about doing this with language because they almost never come up with anything for a background at all.

Honestly learning a language that you haven't grown up with speaking/hearing is very difficult and requires a significant dedication. The current rules don't reflect that at all.

In addition, faking an accent is a bluff check, not a language check.

True it is but it accents are related to language and how you learn to speak any given language.