What Hill Will You Die On?

Reynard

Legend
We all have one: that subject that you just dig your heals in on, no mattter what.

I have two. The first is "RPGs produce stories after the fact; they are not tools for telling stories." The other is "page count of rules DOES NOT determine the relative importance of rules in an RPG."

What's yours?

Note: I am not necessarily interested in fighting about these things. That's okay, I guess, as long as we are engaging in friendly debate. I am more interested in what folks hold on to in a death grip. What hill are you willing to die on, RPG wise.

Obviously, this subject has the potential to get heated, so feel free to debate but also be respectful.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Celebrim

Legend
The rules are inescapably the physics of the game universe.

The same game and even the same session can meet multiple aesthetics of play simultaneously.

No game that can't meet multiple aesthetics of play is popular in the long run.

Hit points, classes, levels, spell slots, and armor as passive defense are a lot smarter mechanics than they are given credit for.

It's not wrong or an accident or an oversight that most game rules focus on physical combat even when the game is not ostensibly about physical combat, nor is it correct to develop complex rules around social interactions just because the game is intended to be about social interaction. (I think we are adjacent on that one.)

Physical and mental attributes of a character are fundamentally different from each other and can't be treated the same.

RPGs produce stories by some means as a critical part of what makes them an RPG; they are therefore tools for telling stories. (We're obviously way far apart on that, but I see no point in arguing it.)

The example of play is as important or more important than the rules of play, and unfortunately there has been very little progress among designers in well communicating the example of play. So much so that it's not clear we've made any progress since the 1980s.

A designer that leaves the details and the story up to you is useless, because they've left up to you everything that requires a lot of work. Do it yourself settings rules setting generators and so forth are all basically useless content. Ideas aren't even worth a penny. It's the implementation and realization of those ideas that matter.
 

Housing, food, and healthcare for everyone in my community. Be nice if the whole world got them, but someone else’s hill. TTRPG issues pale in comparison, not willing to fight or die for them, I get your point but honestly, question is silly for my reality, we play the way or group agrees on, actual rules don’t matter so much, so don’t care to argue them, we take some and leave some.
 

DammitVictor

Trust the Fungus
Supporter
Got a whole bunch of ones that are political and/or religious (especially and) that I'm obviously not even going to hint at here. Just establishing a baseline for my personality.

D&D alignment is incoherent garbage and the only thing that can fix it is to discard it. All nine alignments as described in the AD&D PHB are dangerous mental illnesses, and in 3rd Edition they are all still too vague and subjective to be used as the basis for determining (or denying) class abilities.

For every sanctimonious nitwit who says that a Chaotic Good Paladin oath/archetype will "dilute the class", there are three officially published LN or outright LE options that they don't have a problem with.

Don't @ me on this. Just Do. Not.




Casting [evil] spells is an Evil act. It does not matter who/what you're casting [evil] spells on, it does not matter why you are casting [evil] spells, and even the consequences of casting [evil] spells do not matter. Casting [evil] spells is an Evil act and it will eventually (or even sooner) make you an Evil character no matter what other good deeds you do.

This also applies to creating the undead, including voluntarily becoming undead yourself, and it may even apply to involuntarily being undead.

The rules are clear on this and they make sense even if they don't coincide with most players' moral logic. If you can not agree with this, or at least accept it, you agree with me that the alignment system is garbage and you need to stop defending it. Especially from me.




As mechanical abstractions in combat, Armor Class and Damage Reduction are equally unrealistic and equally silly if you drill any deeper than the surface. Feel free to use either in your games-- I use both in D&D-- but please stop pretending that you're making the game more realistic or that you're even remotely qualified to do so.

Related... D&D was more realistic when all weapons did d6 damage. Differentiating them by damage dice was neat for mechanical diversity, but doesn't actually reflect anything about armed combat accurately.




Primitive black powder firearms shouldn't ignore armor, or at least not any better than certain other weapons do. The word "bulletproof" was coined about standard D&D plate armor, and claiming that your armor (as an armorer) was bulletproof legally required you to prove it. The English longbow and the heavy crossbow both had similarly nasty reputations for puncturing plate armor, supported by historical records of late Medieval knights petitioning the Church to prohibit them because they allowed mere commoners to kill them.

Modern kevlar body armors aren't better at stopping even modern ballistics than plate. They're lighter and cheaper and thus easier to equip for modern military and law enforcement personnel.

And the Sioux in the 19th century had traditional leather shields that unless a bullet hit them just right, that bullet would glance off harmlessly. Of course, if they did hit them just right, they went straight through and killed the guy carrying it.

Hate to say it, but you know what actually reflects ballistic weapons versus archaic (and modern) body armor pretty well, all things considered? Armor providing a bonus to Armor Class, with no special dispensation for the penetrative power of boomsticks.




The multiclassing system in 3.X D&D was broken on a fundamental level that seven years of feats and PrCs could only partially compensate for. Bringing it back in Fifth Edition only made it worse. That said, I have only ever played one single-classed character in thirty years, and I have no intentions of starting now.




Reskinning and dissociated mechanics are the bane of modern D&D. Separating the game mechanics from the in-game reality that they represent doesn't promote narrative freedom, it deprives both the game rules and the game narrative of any sense of meaning.
 
Last edited:





DammitVictor

Trust the Fungus
Supporter
I am happiest with games that have narrative considerations in mind. Since this is my hill, nobody has to approve or care, but this is one of the few things I feel I’ve actually learned I can be confident about and defend. They’re not the best, not the worst, just happiest for me.
I have a very strong preference for games that attempt to simulate an in-game reality, games where the rules of the game are generally consistent and generally reflect a consistent universe and the physical/magical forces therein. You know... what some would consider the exact opposite of your preferences here.

But I do find that the more narrative games are actually a lot better at portraying a character's relationships and moral convictions and their overall psychological state as being as important as (or more so) a characters raw physical abilities and the sum of their training. And, y'know... that stuff is interesting to me, relevant to the kind of gaming experience I want to deliver to my players.

It's easier to trim all the metanarrative stuff from a narrative-based game, leaving players still only in charge of their character but with a richer internal life than it is to build interesting psychological mechanics into a dungeon-crawling simulation.
 

Remove ads

Top