What To Do With the Warlock?

[evilbob]

Aside: I have to say that this post has the exact opposite effect on my own opinion of the warlock; I considered the class to be extremely underpowered, especially at higher levels, since throwing around 1 shot per round with an average damage of about 30 is basically nothing compared to a fighter with 4 attacks that cause massive damage checks every time he hits! Sure, at low levels having consistent damage (warlocks don't really miss) is great, but by level 6 he's already way behind the damage curve. Add to that the fact that many of his natural abilities seem to be predicated toward avoiding damage (which, as a ranged fighter, he shouldn't be taking much of), and you have a rather peculiar class. However, being able to use his (optional) shattering ability against much more than mundane weapons (which you never see after level 6 as well) is a great idea and makes him a much more useful class!

To respond to the OP, however, I would advise against changing the class in any way, or even asking the player to change his playing style. I wouldn't even alter the XP rewards, either. The truth of the situation is: he's actually just doing a really, really good job of playing his character. If his character seems to shine too much, then it's your job as a GM to make sure others shine in turn. I'm sure you can still come up with good ways to slightly alter pre-made adventures to take a little bit of the "sheen" off his character. For example, large doors with hidden or built-in locking mechanisms (still need line of sight to target something, and you can't shatter very heavy objects) could solve your "trap avoidance" problem well. This probably isn't the answer you were looking for, but IMO you'll just need to be more creative!

 

[Xeriar]

You demonstrate that you clearly lack an understanding that there are more dimensions to the game than simply combat.

You entirely and completely missed his point.

A barbarian with an adamantine greatsword and power attack has the same capability. Later on Monks do it with their fists, to. Bonus points for improved sunder and then they can do it to magical items with near impunity, as much as they want.

 

[Angellis_ater]

Simple fixes:
Stop giving XP for overcoming traps/puzzles in this manner, as there is no danger or challenge to the PCs.

No, no, no!

This is equal to not giving out XP because the Fighter kills stuff, the Rogue Sneak Attacks people or because the Sorceror cast a single spell. It's WHAT THEY DO. If you stop giving out XP when people use their abilities in an intelligent way (or just use them in any way) but overcome the dangers they still overcame the dangers.

Or would it make more sense to have people nerf themselves to gain xp? "I do not hit that Kobold with my greatsword, I kick him for *rolls* 6 non-lethal damage. Damn that was close. Gimme more XP."

Don't think so.

 

[DungeonMaester]

I agree with some of what the OP had to say.

Personaly, I would like to see warlocks have more Invocations they can use a day, that are not like A Blue Counter M:TG deck.

Instead, More transmute/illuison/conjure/necromancer school spells that are not combat/control orentiated, and can help the party rather then himself.

Warlocks are too selfish. That is what I personaly think Warlock's problems stem from.

---Rusty

 

[airwalkrr]

You entirely and completely missed his point.

A barbarian with an adamantine greatsword and power attack has the same capability. Later on Monks do it with their fists, to. Bonus points for improved sunder and then they can do it to magical items with near impunity, as much as they want.

I would argue that a barbarian with an adamantine greatsword does not have the kind of precision that a shatter spell does. But it would probably be simpler to just treat shatter spells as having the same precision as a barbarian with an adamantine greatsword and avoid the argument.

 

[Nifft]

I would argue that a barbarian with an adamantine greatsword does not have the kind of precision that a shatter spell does. But it would probably be simpler to just treat shatter spells as having the same precision as a barbarian with an adamantine greatsword and avoid the argument.

How do you rule attacking objects?

Sunder rules are fairly clear, I think. For unattended objects, it's really easy to hit them. Power Attack + ignore hardness (adamantine) = broken, swiftly.

It's really not that hard to use Sunder. People don't do it because they want the treasure, not because it's difficult.

Cheers, -- N

 

[XCorvis]

No, no, no!

This is equal to not giving out XP because the Fighter kills stuff, the Rogue Sneak Attacks people or because the Sorceror cast a single spell. It's WHAT THEY DO. If you stop giving out XP when people use their abilities in an intelligent way (or just use them in any way) but overcome the dangers they still overcame the dangers.

Or would it make more sense to have people nerf themselves to gain xp? "I do not hit that Kobold with my greatsword, I kick him for *rolls* 6 non-lethal damage. Damn that was close. Gimme more XP."

Don't think so.

Just tossing the idea out there. No need to over-react. :\

 

[Angellis_ater]

Didn't mean to sound harsh and I didn't meant to come across as over-reacting, sorry for that! No offense meant, but I once had a DM who nerfed our XP awards for us being smart and it lead to a party which did dumbass things because we didn't want to feel cheated... AFTER I presented the above to the DM.

 

[DungeonMaester]

But that's the whole point of the Warlock. If you're going to get tired of him using a power, it's not right to have it in your setting. That's rather like getting tired of a Rogue who uses Sneak Attack in combat -- it's his one and only trick. Of course it's what he does. He likes to feel useful and cool.


Cheers, -- N

On a single non magic object up to ten pounds, or many objects with a hardness of 0.

I shatter...His boot?

Also, to adress his other point: Warlocks have little in the ways of skills unlike Rogues, and a slow Invocation progression rate. So they will be doing the same things over and over again.

Aside: I have to say that this post has the exact opposite effect on my own opinion of the warlock; I considered the class to be extremely underpowered, especially at higher levels, since throwing around 1 shot per round with an average damage of about 30 is basically nothing compared to a fighter with 4 attacks that cause massive damage checks every time he hits! Sure, at low levels having consistent damage (warlocks don't really miss) is great, but by level 6 he's already way behind the damage curve. Add to that the fact that many of his natural abilities seem to be predicated toward avoiding damage (which, as a ranged fighter, he shouldn't be taking much of), and you have a rather peculiar class. However, being able to use his (optional) shattering ability against much more than mundane weapons (which you never see after level 6 as well) is a great idea and makes him a much more useful class! )

Exactly. At least the Wizard and Sorc can Maximize/Empower Fireball, or a host of other spells to clear baddies even though a limited amount of times. Its still alot more then what a Warlock could do even with Max/Emp SLA.

I agree with some of what the OP had to say.

Personaly, I would like to see warlocks have more Invocations they can use a day, that are not like A Blue Counter M:TG deck.

Instead, More transmute/illuison/conjure/necromancer school spells that are not combat/control orentiated, and can help the party rather then himself.

Warlocks are too selfish. That is what I personaly think Warlock's problems stem from.

---Rusty

Na.

Instead, I offer three changes.

1) More Charasma based skills. Skill points are fine they way they are.

2) Change Elderic Blast to do a little bit less damage then a Sorc/Wizard's spells per level such as Polar Ray or Fireball.

3) Bonus invocations for having a high Charasma score. A Warlock can bonus Invocations up the the highest spell level they can cast. This functions like bonus spells per day in reverse.

---Rusty

 

[GreatLemur]

Or would it make more sense to have people nerf themselves to gain xp? "I do not hit that Kobold with my greatsword, I kick him for *rolls* 6 non-lethal damage. Damn that was close. Gimme more XP."

You know, I realize that you're offering that scenario as a counterexample, but I can actually imagine such a houserule being extremely entertaining in the right kind of campaign. You could encourage situations where glory-hounding swashbuckler types fight with their off hands to show off for their comrades, or suffering martyrs adventure without armor (or warm clothing) to deny the concerns of the flesh. But this is a tangent that doesn't belong in a thread about Warlocks.