When did the Monster Manual 2 become a core book?

[Tsyr]

Also, you may blithely say that they should have just reprinted the monster, but it isn't that simple. Virtually every book has stuff that gets trimmed from it before it goes to print, so the final page counts are pretty crammed with stuff that made the cut. Reprinting a full-page monster would mean something else had to go...getting rid of new stuff for material that has already seen print.

Eh. One of my minor gripes with the book (Overall I actually like it) is it's so dinky. I wish they HADN'T cut as much stuff. It's tiny. So many ideas they just touch on and then never really explore much.

But that's an arguement for another time.

And thanks for the information.

And I can't ask anyone to look at theirs: I own pretty much every book in the area that isn't a PHB, DMG, or MM1... I think one guy has a fiend folio, another has Oriental Adventures, but...

 

[Alzrius]

And thanks for the information.

Sure. There's a bit more in the MM2 section of WotC's 3.5E update booklet: http://wizards.com/dnd/files/DnD35_update_booklet.zip

 

[Frostmarrow]

I agree with you Tsyr. It's a matter of principle. WoTC earn trust on promises and then they go ahead and break those promises - WoTC lose trust.

 

[Li Shenron]

I am completely with Oni and Tsyr.

I don't care if it's just one page, if you sell me something without telling me that I need to buy from you something else or I won't fully use your product, I have all the rights at least to get my money back if I want. But usually I don't want that, I do want to buy and use WotC's products, and I want them to be as good as they can be, without this sort of "leggeresse" by the authors. I haven't seen the BoED, but usually WotC books have a diciture on the introduction that says "You need PHB to use to use this product..." or whatever, and it should say "you need MMII to fully get advantage of this book" if that's so.

It is not a practical matter, it is indeed a matter of principles, like Frostmarrow says. Especially if it's one single thing (PrCl) that I can't use. Why did they have to print that PrCl that way if it wasn't so important? Furthermore, I bet that the PrCl is quoted in the WotC's site commercials about BoED; if that's also true, what if a kid decided to buy BoED because fascinated by the name or description of that PrCl? That's just a fraud.

On the other hand, I REALLY appreciate if they release some (I mean SOME not A LOAD OF) books which synergically use each other. For example, I have borrowed long ago the ELH and other books which have epic characters, but they dont's use epic rules. This obviously saddens the ones who bought ELH because it looks like the ELH is usable alone but not easily together with other books. But if you print a book that uses ELH then make it use it on a regular basis and write on the back cover "This books lets you further exploit the ELH in marvelous ways!" so that I know what I am buying.

Besides, they could always release web enhancement to exploit synergies instead of web enhancement that almost always simply give crunchy bits that you never get to know why they didn't make it to the printed book if they were worth.

Or otherwise, why not using the wonderful sidebars for variants? Make the PrCl by default summon a monster from the MM and let the sidebar give the variant of the Tempest if you own the MMII.

 

[johnsemlak]

What exactly is meant by "2nd edition product creep"?

 

[diaglo]

What exactly is meant by "2nd edition product creep"?

She who shall not be named.

not all creeps are male.

 

[Davelozzi]

I'm with the school of synergy is good but product creep bad. I think that the D&Dg should have required use of the ELH, and said so on the cover.

In this case of the BoED prestige class, I agree that an alternate for those that didn't have the MM2 should have been mentioned.

At any rate, WotC may be slipping a little but they're still a lot better than some companies (**cough** AEG **cough**) in that department.

 

[Desdichado]

I agree. See, what Tsyr complains about wouldn't bother me (and not just because I do own MM2) but when Monsters of Norrath says its compatible with D&D, and then it turns out I can't use it really without the Everquest mainbook, I feel a bit burned. Or that Creatures of Rokugan really needs the Rokugan book to use as well (although I now have Rokugan thanks to a Chicago gameday about a year or so ago...)

 

[Psion]

See, what Tsyr complains about wouldn't bother me (and not just because I do own MM2) but when Monsters of Norrath says its compatible with D&D, and then it turns out I can't use it really without the Everquest mainbook, I feel a bit burned. Or that Creatures of Rokugan really needs the Rokugan book to use as well (although I now have Rokugan thanks to a Chicago gameday about a year or so ago...)

See, I expect if a book bears the banner of a specific line, you are going to need books from that specific line or you should expect to shift into "salvage mode".

 

[Mystery Man]

She who shall not be named.

not all creeps are male.

Lorraine....


so what happens?