When did the Monster Manual 2 become a core book?

[WizarDru]

I agree. See, what Tsyr complains about wouldn't bother me (and not just because I do own MM2) but when Monsters of Norrath says its compatible with D&D, and then it turns out I can't use it really without the Everquest mainbook, I feel a bit burned. Or that Creatures of Rokugan really needs the Rokugan book to use as well (although I now have Rokugan thanks to a Chicago gameday about a year or so ago...)

Specifically, what does the Creatures of Rokugan use that requires the setting? Is it references to things like Taint and such?

 

[Psion]

Specifically, what does the Creatures of Rokugan use that requires the setting? Is it references to things like Taint and such?

Hmmm... taint's originally in OA and I thought all the Rokugan stuff said you need OA.

But I can think of one. The shadow samurai is a template that is applied to a samurai. Of course, I just tweaked it in my game to a shadow warrior and let it apply to any class.

I think a lot of spell like abilities come from Rokugan IIRC.

 

[diaglo]

Lorraine....


so what happens?

lucky for you. nothing.

just don't say her name two more times.

 

[hunter1828]

When did the Monster Manual 2 become a core book?

Apparently as soon as it was released.

Last night I finally looked at the consumer response cards included with the 3.5 PHB, DMG and MM. Question #7 on the card is:

Which of the following core rulebooks for the Third Edition (3.0) of the Dungeons & Dragons game (before the current revision) do you own? Do you own the...?

Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Monster Manual II (bold added by me for emphasis)​

So, apparently it's been a 3.0 Core book for a while, we just didn't know it.

And that begs the question...why isn't it in the SRD?

hunter1828

 

[Pants]

And that begs the question...why isn't it in the SRD?

hunter1828

Because it's just like the Creature Collection which also had Core Rulebook on the cover.
It's core, but not core, but more core than this, but less core than that. Core core core core.

 

[Arnwyn]

See, I expect if a book bears the banner of a specific line, you are going to need books from that specific line or you should expect to shift into "salvage mode".

I totally agree with that.

 

[PowerWordDumb]

lucky for you. nothing.

just don't say her name two more times.

Lorraine Lorraine Lorraine!

Hell, while we're at it:

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice!

Candyman Candyman Candyman!

And worst of all:

Derek Smart! Derek Smart! Derek Smart!

Nyah nyah!

 

[Voadam]

CR 16.



It's a gargantuan elemental with all four elemental subtypes, at its most basic. It has a few special attacks, but you should be able to go with it from there.



Except that they don't even really need to reprint it at all if you think about it. Most characters take a PrC around 6th level or so, so this PrC's 10th level would be roughly a 16th level PC. That means a CR 16 monster would be roughly appropriate. Given that its for the Skylord PrC, you can surmise its something to do with elemental air. That alone is enough to give you enough to go on; it's not like the power would be to summon a Small elemental.

Also, you may blithely say that they should have just reprinted the monster, but it isn't that simple. Virtually every book has stuff that gets trimmed from it before it goes to print, so the final page counts are pretty crammed with stuff that made the cut. Reprinting a full-page monster would mean something else had to go...getting rid of new stuff for material that has already seen print. That would have been much more unfair to the people who already owned the MM2 than this way is to the people who don't. You can ask someone to give you the details of the Tempest (and don't worry about copyright law; that doesn't care if you borrow a friend's copy of the book or even just flip through it in a bookstore) - you can't ask someone to give you the details of the page of new material that would have been cut to have the Tempest reprinted.

I would not have guessed it was five CR higher than the top unadvanced air elemental (elder is CR 11 at 24 HD). Advancing an elder elemental to reach CR 15 is easily doable but a little more work than pulling a ready to go core creature out or having ready stats for a non-core creature. Also with summoned creatures, their spell-like and supernatural abilities can be as useful as their general combat worthiness. What else can tempests do that an air elemental can not?

They could have easily done as they did in 2e modules that included monsters from secondary sources and included a bullet stat block for the creature. That way it is mechanically useable from the book but if you really want to flesh them out with a good monster description of ecology and society etc. you would go to the full listing in the other source. This would turn a class power description from a sentence to a paragraph, not a page.

Of course, good core monster descriptions are another relic of 2e.

 

[Pants]

They could have easily done as they did in 2e modules that included monsters from secondary sources and included a bullet stat block for the creature. That way it is mechanically useable from the book but if you really want to flesh them out with a good monster description of ecology and society etc. you would go to the full listing in the other source. This would turn a class power description from a sentence to a paragraph, not a page.

Really?
The Planescape books that I've read had none of this, just a reference for which book the monster could be found in.

 

[Voadam]

Really?
The Planescape books that I've read had none of this, just a reference for which book the monster could be found in.

I'm thinking of later ravenloft modules I have, they include both a stat block and a reference of what monstrous compendium monster to swap in if you don't have the specific ravenloft monster compendium appendix they are drawing from.