Aasimar to Celestial to Half Celestial to What?

CrusadeDave said:

Thoughts?

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immensely overpowered. Spread the abilities between a minimum of 6 levels.

CrusadeDave said:

The level adjustment for a Deva is +8. Would 4 more racial levels allow her to get some sort of template to mimic a Deva's abilities? Would that seem fair?

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Nooooo... the thing to look at is not LA, it's LA + HD. In the case of an Astral Deva, the ECL (= LA + HD) is 20. So, you could fairly make a 20 level (Core) class that gives you the benefits of being an Astral Deva, but not a 4-level "race" class.

-- N

Nifft said:

Nooooo... the thing to look at is not LA, it's LA + HD. In the case of an Astral Deva, the ECL (= LA + HD) is 20. So, you could fairly make a 20 level (Core) class that gives you the benefits of being an Astral Deva, but not a 4-level "race" class.

-- N

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The idea being, Nifft, that he is replacing the Racial Hit Dice of the Deva with Druid Class levels, but keeping the Level Adjustment. Thinking about it some more, I'm still of the mind that Druid levels are superior to Outsider hit dice, and so a greater level adjustment is in order. The druid will aquire the Outsider type, and have the (Augmented Humanoid) subtype. Which means, if I am correct, that the Druid will still have most of the features of the Humanoid type, and only some of the features of the Outsider type, yes?

IcyCool said:

The idea being, Nifft, that he is replacing the Racial Hit Dice of the Deva with Druid Class levels, but keeping the Level Adjustment.

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Aaah, I see. I would NOT allow that... unless you separated out the goodies granted by HD and the goodies granted by the +8 LA, and somehow balanced them.

(And by "goodies granted by HD" I do not just mean BAB and skill points. I mean "what are these 12 somewhat sub-optimal HD compensating for?". Are the base Angel Traits a part of HD or LA? They are:

Angel Traits

An angel possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

* Darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision.
* Immunity to acid, cold, and petrification.
* Resistance to electricity 10 and fire 10.
* +4 racial bonus on saves against poison.
* Protective Aura (Su): Against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20 feet of the angel. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals angel’s HD). This aura can be dispelled, but the angel can create it again as a free action on its next turn. (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.)
* Tongues (Su): All angels can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level equal to angel’s Hit Dice). This ability is always active.

... pretty darn good.)

I think it's possible to sift out a chunk of Astral Deva parts worth +8 LA, but I'm sure it's not easy.

-- N

Nifft said:

I think it's possible to sift out a chunk of Astral Deva parts worth +8 LA, but I'm sure it's not easy.

-- N

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I'm getting that impression too. Oh well, let us know what you decide to do and how it turns out, CrusadeDave.

Not that anyone's paying attention to this thread any more but...

I built out a 6 level Progression from Half-Celestial to Deva. The terms Devaial and Half-Deva are just for labeling sake.

Upon becoming a Half Celestial, and having at least 12 HD. A character may continue developing his celestial bloodline with the following progession, assuming that at least 1 HD is gained in between each progressed level.

Level 1:
+2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int
NA Set to +3 Natural Form (Was +1)

Level 2: Now of type: Devaial rather than Half Celestial.
NA Set to +5 Natural Form (Was +3)
Discern Lies@Will
Protection Evil@Will
Remove Fear@Will
Bless@Will
Aid@Will
DetectEvil@Will
Fire Resistance 10
Plane Shift 1/day
Polymorph Self 1/day
Invisibility Self 1/day
See Invisiblity 1/day
Dispel Magic 1/day

Level 3:
+2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha
NA Set to +7 Natural Form (Was +5)

Level 4: Now of type: Half Deva:
NA Set to +10 Natural Form (Was +7)
Holy Smite@Will
Remove Disease@Will
Dispel Evil@Will
Dispel Magic@Will
Stun (If hit opponent 2 in one run, must make fort save or be stunned)-> Standard Deva ability.
Uncanny Dodge
Immunity Acid, Cold, Petrification
+4 racial bonus on saves against poison
DR 10/evil

Level 5:
+2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha.
NA Set to +12 Natural Form (Was +10)

Level 6: Now of type: Deva
NA Set to +15 Natural Form (Was +12)
Holy Word@Will
Plane Shift@Will
Holy Aura@Will
Polymorph Self@Will
See Invisibility 7/day
Cure Light Wounds 7/day
Blade Barrier 1/day
Heal 1/day
Protective Aura (Su): Against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20 feet of the angel. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals angel’s HD). This aura can be dispelled, but the angel can create it again as a free action on its next turn. (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.)
Tongues (Su): All angels can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level equal to angel’s Hit Dice). This ability is always active.

Thoughts?

Question: Why does the character need to become more Celestial than a Half-Celestial? Half-Celestials get numerous holy spell-like abilities, glorious feathered wings, and are generally pretty angelic on their own.

You could probably use high-level Half-Celestials as "standard" representations of Angels for most races and cultures, really. I think that's a lot better than the standard Outsiders, since Celestials serve so many deities of various races.

Also... compare the Half-Celestial's template abilities to some of the higher-level stuff from Favored Soul.

I'm thinking your best solution here is either a couple of levels of Paladin (or Holy Liberator), or taking a couple of Exalted feats.

Korimyr the Rat said:

Question: Why does the character need to become more Celestial than a Half-Celestial? Half-Celestials get numerous holy spell-like abilities, glorious feathered wings, and are generally pretty angelic on their own.

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Well, I suppose the answer is: The player is my Wife, she asked nicely, and is not exactly a power gamer, so I decided to look into it.

She doesn't NEED anything; her character could be offed in the next session. But, I thought it was an interesting idea. I'd never choose to waste levels on template buying if I could continue to progress my characters casting level, but she did.

I just thought it was an interesting problem, and thought I'd try to solve it.

That's fair enough. I certainly didn't mean to imply that it wasn't worth doing-- just that it might not really be necessary.

No offense taken,

Sorry my response was course.

Eventually my wife is going to have to stop advancing on these classes, she's gone from being Dazed, to weakened, to paralyzed on every Blasphemy. Soon, she'll be staring death in the face, no save.