Ranged Combat At Night

Olaf the Stout · Mar 1, 2007

Last session I had my first ranged combat at night. The PC's were all gathered around a wagon which had 4 or so lanterns on it, making it a easy target for the bad guys to spot. The bad guys, on the other hand, attacked from the safety of darkness, making it hard for the PC's to respond.

4 of the PC's are human and 1 is an elf, so vision at night is rather limited for them. A few light spells, cast on rocks and/or arrows, eventually lit the surrounding area up enough for the PC's to spot the bad guys, who were about 200 feet away. They eventually were able to get them to retreat with a couple of well-placed fireballs/coldballs.

Overall it worked out ok but I'm still not sure if I handled everything correctly. The bad guys will be back and they will attack the PC's at night again so I want to make sure I am doing everything correctly before the next session. What are the main rules to remember when fighting at night (or in dim/no light situations for that matter)?

Once the PC's managed to get some light in the area that the bad guys were standing, I still made the PC's roll spot checks to see if they could actually see the baddies. Is this correct?

Olaf the Stout

Dross · Mar 1, 2007

I'd make them roll spot checks to find the baddies as well (modified however you see fit for being the focus of a concentrated search check). But then all the bad guys have to do is move and they would be unseen again.

Remember the part distance plays in modifying the spot check.

Also i have a vague memory about some RAW thing that mean that you couldn't have line of sight through non-magical darkness to a light source for some strange reason (memory might not be serving me tho'

).

Legildur · Mar 1, 2007

Not sure about rules, but the inability to see your current location (or all the intervening ground) would inhibit ranged combat. Behind unable to see all the ground would make it difficult to estimate the distance to the target. Let alone sighting alone an arrow (for example).

Hypersmurf · Mar 1, 2007

Dross said:
Also i have a vague memory about some RAW thing that mean that you couldn't have line of sight through non-magical darkness to a light source for some strange reason (memory might not be serving me tho' ).

You may be thinking of "If a line passes through a square that grants concealment, the creature has concealment".

I think there's a difference between "a square that grants concealment to something within it", and "a square that grants concealment to something beyond it". Fog, for example, not only conceals things inside the fog, it also prevents seeing past the fog. Darkness, on the other hand, prevents you seeing something inside it, but you can see something illuminated beyond the darkness just fine.

To me, if a line passes through a dark square on its way to a lit square, that square is not one that grants concealment to someone on the far side, so someone beyond that square is not granted concealment by it.

Magical darkness, on the other hand, I'm inclined to think of as an intangible translucent (and faintly glowing) mist; looking through a square of magical darkness would be like looking through a tinted window, and thus would grant concealment to something beyond it. I could entertain an argument otherwise, though - after all, it's magical!

-Hyp.

Dei · Mar 1, 2007

Normally darkness grants total concealment, 50% miss chance. Shadowy illumination, as found of the edge of light provided by a torch or similar grants a 20% miss chance.

I would say that you definately need to make spot checks to see where the arrows/spells were coming from. Perhaps DC 15 to determine the direction of an arrow and perhaps DC5 to spot the glitter of magic spell effects being summoned. Something like a lightning bolt spell would probably automatically give the location since they form a visible track back to the caster.

Once the bad guys were illuminated though unless they were actively making hide checks (at -20 for doing so while observed) the PCs would be able to see and fire at them as normal. Although, considering the distance the -20 is actually negated by the fact that they're 200ft away (-1 on spot checks/10ft) however the bad guys must still spend a move action each round to make the hide check. When granted concealment, such as on the edge of a light radius you can attempt a hide check even if no cover is present but unless you use a move action to hide you are assumed to be visible to opponents, if slightly blurred by shadow and no spot check is required to see them. Someone with total concealment, such as in un-illuminated darkness cannot be seen.

Hope this helps.

Darklone · Mar 1, 2007

That should teach PCs a lesson not to travel at night with lit lanterns on a wagon.

I really like how the D&D rules copy reality in this regard.

Olaf the Stout · Mar 1, 2007

My main query is with spotting people at night, at a distance that are within the range of light sources. Should you be able to see them automatically or should you have to make a spot check? Once you have spotted them is it easier for your allies to spot them?

The rules seem a little silent in this regard.

Olaf the Stout

frankthedm · Mar 1, 2007

Should you be able to see them automatically or should you have to make a spot check?

Spot checks are for when people use the hide skill. Otherwise one spots the foe automaticly in even shadowy light once combat begins.

Once you have spotted them is it easier for your allies to spot them?

No. A ally can point, but at best, that is a line the hidden foe could be anywhere along. A player can point all he wants at one square on the battlegrid, the character can only point in the direction of the square. Perhaps a 2 point circumstance bonus for a good decription of the foes location may be in order.

frankthedm · Mar 1, 2007

Olaf the Stout said:
A few light spells, cast on rocks and/or arrows, eventually lit the surrounding area up enough for the PC's to spot the bad guys, who were about 200 feet away. They eventually were able to get them to retreat with a couple of well-placed fireballs/coldballs.

No Sunrods? Those blasted things give huge light coverage for thier cost...grumble. They are better than an Extended Daylight spell. mutter... and should be priced as such... mutter.

Olaf the Stout · Mar 1, 2007

frankthedm said:
No Sunrods? Those blasted things give huge light coverage for thier cost...grumble. They are better than an Extended Daylight spell. mutter... and should be priced as such... mutter.

For some reason my group seems to have nothing in the way of alchemical items. No sunrods, thunderstones or tanglefoot bags. Perhaps I have to use them against them so they can see how useful they can be.

Olaf the Stout