Ranged Combat At Night

[Olaf the Stout]

So just to clarify, Kobold is not hiding and is standing in an area that has a light spell on it. PC's can see the Kobold and return fire without the need to make a spot check.

There is another Kobold standing next to the first Kobold, not hiding either, but in a area of shadowy illumination. Do the PC's need to make a Spot check in order to see and attack the second Kobold? What about if the Kobold then fires a crossbow at the PC's?

If either Kobold is hiding, the PC's have to make a Spot check in order to see them, correct? What about if they are in either the darkness or shadowy illumination? How does that affect the Spot checks?

Finally, if the Kobolds are firing crossbows at the PC's from the darkness, can the PC's make some sort of Spot check in order to figure out where the Kobolds are shooting at them from?

Olaf the Stout

 

[hong]

The fence is in full daylight.

If something casts a normal shadow over the volume between me and the fence, it doesn't obscure my view of the fence at all; I still see the brightly-lit fence.

It's not clear from the description of the Darkness spell whether it affects your view of anything on the other side of the area of shadowy illumination.

-Hyp.

On a related note.

Suppose there is a door in a wall. There is, as one might expect, a room on the other side of the door. You cast invisibility on the door. Do you then see:

A hole in the wall, letting you see into the room?

An unbroken wall?


Hong "enquiring minds etc" Ooi

 

[AbeTheGnome]

On a related note.

Suppose there is a door in a wall. There is, as one might expect, a room on the other side of the door. You cast invisibility on the door. Do you then see:

A hole in the wall, letting you see into the room?

An unbroken wall?


Hong "enquiring minds etc" Ooi

I would imagine you see a hole in the wall. Invisibility means you don't see something that is there, rather than seeing something completely different (a wall). In order to disguise a door like the rest of the wall, you would require a figmentary illusion (a la silent image).

 

[Hypersmurf]

On a related note.

Suppose there is a door in a wall. There is, as one might expect, a room on the other side of the door. You cast invisibility on the door. Do you then see:

A hole in the wall, letting you see into the room?

An unbroken wall?

The door becomes invisible, not camouflaged. You can see through it, and so can anyone else.

More interesting was the 1E Cantrip, Hide... which acted like Invisibility, but only to people in front of you. (So if I cast Hide on my cat, say, anyone in front of me couldn't see him, but anyone behind me could.) So you cast Hide on a door behind you, facing the rest of the party... which means that the door becomes invisible for them, but anyone on the other side of the door (behind you) sees nothing change.

And it was a cantrip!

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If either Kobold is hiding, the PC's have to make a Spot check in order to see them, correct? What about if they are in either the darkness or shadowy illumination? How does that affect the Spot checks?

The kobold standing in the light cannot hide. He has neither cover nor concealment; he requires at least one to hide.

The kobold in shadowy illumination can hide, since he has concealment. There is no modifier to the Spot check (save the normal -1 per ten feet).

A kobold in complete darkness doesn't need to hide; he can't be seen, because he has total concealment. On the other hand, if it's a dwarf looking for him, the kobold will need cover in order to hide, since the darkness provides no concealment for him against the dwarf's darkvision.

-Hyp.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

The kobold standing in the light cannot hide. He has neither cover nor concealment; he requires at least one to hide.

The kobold in shadowy illumination can hide, since he has concealment. There is no modifier to the Spot check (save the normal -1 per ten feet).

A kobold in complete darkness doesn't need to hide; he can't be seen, because he has total concealment. On the other hand, if it's a dwarf looking for him, the kobold will need cover in order to hide, since the darkness provides no concealment for him against the dwarf's darkvision.

-Hyp.

Is the Kobold in Shadowy Illumination immediately spotted once he fires at the PC's?

I may be making that rule up but I seem to remember reading that if you shoot at someone from hiding, you are then no longer considered to be hiding. Does this rule actually exist or am I just talking out my butt again?

Olaf the Stout

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is the Kobold in Shadowy Illumination immediately spotted once he fires at the PC's?

I may be making that rule up but I seem to remember reading that if you shoot at someone from hiding, you are then no longer considered to be hiding. Does this rule actually exist or am I just talking out my butt again?

It's implied:

Sniping: If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a –20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot.

If attacking didn't make you 'unhidden', then why would a successfully-hidden person need to 'hide again'?

-Hyp.

 

[Twowolves]

The square counting is not perfect, bu this one shows about how much coverage low light vision gets with light souces {dark grey is shadowy for those with low life vision. {previous diagram was also off due to lanterns lighting 30' not 20'.

So the ambush took place in a trailer park??

 

[ruleslawyer]

Thread resurrection time!

Here's a really stupid question: What *are* the rules for seeing at night or in semi-darkness if there are no light sources present (other than, say, the moon and stars)? If I'm standing on a ship's deck on a clear (moon- and starlit) night, and there's a lantern by me, of course people can see me in the lantern light. But what about someone standing, say, 60 feet away on a part of the deck that's not illuminated? Partial concealment? Partial to humans but none to elves?

 

[hong]

If it's a full moon, I'd allow partial concealment for humans, no concealment for elves.

No, what would happen is that after the 1st round I'd get annoyed with constant rolls for concealment, dump it as a concept, and run it as a normal fight.