Confusion over GSL and 4e

Ixis · Feb 14, 2009

This is going to be extremely noobish, but I'm totally lost since there's a lot of licenses floating around and all sorts of rules and it sounds like most people aren't sure themselves but: is it legal to make a new campaign setting for 4e with new classes, races, places, people, things and what have you that uses the 4e rules but completely new art, resources, etc? Also am I allowed to use WotC art or not? Am I allowed to reference other books for certain rules? Sorry, I'm really confused over the whole thing.

Starglim · Feb 14, 2009

Ixis said:
This is going to be extremely noobish, but I'm totally lost since there's a lot of licenses floating around and all sorts of rules and it sounds like most people aren't sure themselves

Don't worry about "most people", whoever that is. It doesn't sound as if their opinion is worth much. The licence governing third party products for 4e is the GSL. Best read carefully all the material there.

is it legal to make a new campaign setting for 4e with new classes, races, places, people, things and what have you that uses the 4e rules but completely new art, resources, etc?

Yes, this is something you could do, provided you stick to items that are new. You may not publish descriptions of the classes, races or other material that are listed in the SRD (whether the same as WotC's version or different: you may neither define nor redefine them - clause 4.1 and 5.6), though you can add new material to support them. You may not use any WotC IP except the references listed in the SRD (clause 10.1) - that includes earlier editions.

Also am I allowed to use WotC art or not?

Absolutely not. There is no reason to think you would be allowed to use it and WotC has specifically excluded artwork in clause 5.7.

Am I allowed to reference other books for certain rules?

If they are WotC books, no, see above. For third party products, ask the publisher.

Ixis · Feb 14, 2009

Thanks for the help Starglim, GSL is a little less confusing now!

Relique du Madde · Feb 16, 2009

Reported

phloog · Feb 16, 2009

Relique du Madde said:
Reported

Okay...so...um...apparently something has been reported. Forgive me for also sounding naive, but I'm not sure what the basis for any 'reporting' of this thread would be....? Because of the assertion that 'most' don't know what they're talking about (which seems a bit hyper-sensitive, unless you are automatically assuming that you = most), or because of the GSL question, the nature of the advice given (was it incorrect?).

Reporting offenses has its place in making a forum better, but I think that listing something as reported with no clear indication (and again it might be clear to 'most') of the nature of the offense does little to nothing to stop the alleged offense from happening again.

AdmundfortGeographer · Feb 17, 2009

phloog said:
Forgive me for also sounding naive, but I'm not sure what the basis for any 'reporting' of this thread would be....?

I don't know either, but frankly posting a curt "Reported" post, with no further details seems rather taunting to an observer and report-worthy in itself, IMO. Maybe there were some smilies that ended on the cutting room floor that could have helped. *ahem*

freyar · Feb 17, 2009

I think what happened was that there was a spam post inserted, which Relique reported and the mods subsequently deleted.

phloog · Feb 17, 2009

freyar said:
I think what happened was that there was a spam post inserted, which Relique reported and the mods subsequently deleted.

That would be reasonable...not sure how hard it is to delete bits and pieces of a thread, but it seems like in cases where something is reported, any mod action that deletes 100% of the BASIS for reporting should either contain a comment from the mod, or they might as well just go ahead and also delete the post that says 'Reported'...it would be as if nothing happened.

Otherwise, you get neurotic people like me wondering WHY it was reported, and fearing that without information I might repeat the error and get zapped/banned/etc.

FormerlyDickensC · Feb 19, 2009

Starglim said:
Yes, this is something you could do, provided you stick to items that are new. You may not publish descriptions of the classes, races or other material that are listed in the SRD (whether the same as WotC's version or different: you may neither define nor redefine them - clause 4.1 and 5.6), though you can add new material to support them. You may not use any WotC IP except the references listed in the SRD (clause 10.1) - that includes earlier editions.

This is not necessarily true. You would not be bound by the terms of the GSL unless you expressly agree to be bound (i.e. go through the whole process they've setup to become a licensee).

If you do not become a licensee, then what you publish is governed by copyright law and not the GSL. I know I and many others have said this before, so excuse me if I'm harping on issues already addressed.

In any case, there are companies that have published "4E compatible" material without being a licensee. By no means does this mean there will not be actions brought in the future, but none have been so far. Remember, as long as you publish original material, there is no violation of law. Though, depending on how you express the fact that your material is 4E compatible, you may or may not have trademark issues.

If interested, look to see how other publishers have tackled the hurdles. Then hire a good lawyer.

CapnZapp · Feb 19, 2009

However, the point of having a license in the first place, is to remove the need for a good lawyer.

Most people in this particular business do not have either the money for or the interest in law and copyright matters. It's a small business, not suited to the average lawyer's fee.

They just want to go forth and create stuff for their favorite rpg. And be reasonably sure their customers' money does not have to go into WotC's coffers.

What I'm saying is that each time I hear the advice "go get a good lawyer", you could as well have said "shelve your plans, kill your imagination, and stick to your day job".

Confusion over GSL and 4e

Ixis

First Post

Starglim

Explorer

Ixis

First Post

Relique du Madde

Adventurer

phloog

First Post

AdmundfortGeographer

Getting lost in fantasy maps

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer

phloog

First Post

FormerlyDickensC

First Post

CapnZapp

Legend

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