Sequence of events on killin a Troll

Wrathamon · Feb 24, 2009

Troll gets hit and reduced below zero hitpoint from a normal attack.

They have ongoing 5 fire damage
They fall into a fire trap that on the start of their turn they take 2d6+5 damage
They have resist Fire 10

What happens?

Do they Troll Heal 1st going to 10 hps then take 5 fire and resist it then take 2d6+5 - 10 damage ?

or do they die instantly? or something else?

just curious what others think

Journeymanmage · Feb 24, 2009

*see ghearus' answer below ... trolls have special regen

ghearus · Feb 24, 2009

Trolls have a power that indicates that if they are reduced to 0 hit points by an attack that does not deal fire or acid damage, it rises at the beginning of its next turn with 10 hitpoints. This power is not governed by the Trolls regeneration.

Page 268 and 269 detail the order of resolution of a turn and turn-based effects:

1: Regeneration (halted, the foe is at or below 0 hp)
2: Ongoing fire damage
3: Other effects (fire trap resolves)
4: Trolls actions begin
5: Troll Healing power resolves, and the Troll stands up with 10 hitpoints as a move action

The troll then has a standard and minor action remaining.

That is RAW.

Dan'L · Feb 24, 2009

And if the fire trap succeeds in dealing fire damage before the healing effect resolves, wouldn't this constitute being reduced to 0 hp by fire damage, and therefore negate the resurrection?

-Dan'L

MarkB · Feb 24, 2009

Dan'L said:
And if the fire trap succeeds in dealing fire damage before the healing effect resolves, wouldn't this constitute being reduced to 0 hp by fire damage, and therefore negate the resurrection?

-Dan'L

It reduces its hit points, and leaves them at less than zero, so although it doesn't actually take them below zero, I'd certainly let it qualify.

ghearus · Feb 24, 2009

Sadly, by RAW, no it doesn't...

Page 26 of the PHB defines the process for an Attack, which is the roll of a d20, plus appropriate modifiers. An Attack is described as [ability] vs. [defense]. Neither the ongoing fire damage, or the fire traps damage that triggers at the beginning of the trolls qualify as attacks (unless the fire trap is a strange effect that resolves at the beginning of the Trolls turn that deals fire damage).

That said, I would rule that the crispified troll would be dead.

Wrathamon · Feb 24, 2009

so there is no way to kill an unconscious troll... cept wait till they wake up with 10 hps and smack them with 10pts of Fire or Acid damage.

wow that makes them really hard to kill for groups that dont have an at will fire or acid attack.

I ruled if they take damage from Fire or acid while at 0 they are dead and dont rise, otherwise my group would have no way to fight in the troll warrens and survive.

Black Knight Irios · Feb 24, 2009

Wrathamon said:
so there is no way to kill an unconscious troll... cept wait till they wake up with 10 hps and smack them with 10pts of Fire or Acid damage.

wow that makes them really hard to kill for groups that dont have an at will fire or acid attack.

I ruled if they take damage from Fire or acid while at 0 they are dead and dont rise, otherwise my group would have no way to fight in the troll warrens and survive.

Monsters don't have negative HP they die at 0HP usually. The troll is an exception he does not die at 0HP but does not have neg. HP.

One could argue that a fire/acid attack applied when he is at 0HP reduces his HP to 0 and could slay him.

And I would rule that way anyway because the ruling the troll is helpless but immune to damage because the wrong damage type put him at 0HP sounds rather stupid and not in line with how I feel a troll is supposed to play out.

Skallgrim · Feb 24, 2009

Dan'L said:
And if the fire trap succeeds in dealing fire damage before the healing effect resolves, wouldn't this constitute being reduced to 0 hp by fire damage, and therefore negate the resurrection?

-Dan'L

Also, remember that we are dealing with a monster, so it does not go below 0 hp, which throws off the normal mathematical operations.

I'd look at it as:

Start of turn, the Troll takes damage from fire.
That damage leaves the troll at 0 hp.
Troll does not get up.

It doesn't matter that the Troll STARTED at 0 hp, just that the attack left him at 0hp.

If you get into a car in Chicago, and it doesn't start, and you get out of the car, you just got out of a car in Chicago.

Now, arguing that ongoing damage insn't an attack is a separate matter, and personally, I'd rule that it is PART of an attack, and that attack left the troll at 0hp.

Wrathamon · Feb 24, 2009

Skallgrim said:
It doesn't matter that the Troll STARTED at 0 hp, just that the attack left him at 0hp.
.

I believe that is the intent, but it isn't worded that way.

Sequence of events on killin a Troll

Wrathamon

Adventurer

Journeymanmage

First Post

ghearus

Explorer

Dan'L

First Post

MarkB

Legend

ghearus

Explorer

Wrathamon

Adventurer

Black Knight Irios

Explorer

Skallgrim

First Post

Wrathamon

Adventurer

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