DR from Class and Armor

Dandu · May 4, 2010

StreamOfTheSky said:
Because he shouldn't necessarily know the exact parameters of an obscure prestige class only dwarves ever train in? Or because when I say "big dumb fighter" I mean literally like hill giant dumb or nonintelligent vermin dumb, which is an intelligence level many monsters in the MM could be classified as.

Hold on. Dwarves fight giants enough to get special bonuses vs them, so one can reasonably assume that giants probably know what a Dwarven Defender is. It would be reasonable to extrapolate this to orcs and goblinoids as well. Probably also to Duergar as well. Maybe the Drow and other Underdark races, if your Dwarves live in the Underdark.

Basically. If you don't want to play a caster, and it's a core game, I don't see how Fighter 20, Barbarian 20, etc... is any better than Dwarven Defender. They do get some nice things.

Actually, the Barbarian may be better depending on how he's built. At least the Barbarian doesn't have to select three crappy feats.

Let's see...

HP: Both have d12 HD, though you enter Dwarven defender from a class with lower HD in core.
Will Saves: Dwarven Defender has a base will save (around +10 assuming Fighter entry) higher than the Barbarian's +6, although the barbarian gets a +4 bonus from Rage, and +4 against enchantments from Indomitable Will. Advantage to the Defender, but it is close.
Skills: Clear win for the Barbarian, unless Dwarven Defender was entered with Ranger. (Though Horizon Walker is much better for Rangers)
Special abilities: Rage is better than Defensive Stance.
DR: About the same. Dwarven Defender is slightly better. Barbarian gets his sooner. In both cases, the DR isn't very useful at the level they get it at.
Trapsense: Barbarian wins with a +6 compared to the Dwarven Defender's +2. Trapsense is rather weak on the whole, however.
Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny dodge: Both get this, but the Barbarian gets it much sooner.
Mobility: Barbarian wins.
AC: Defender wins this one by at least +4AC assuming all else is equal. More when the Barbarian is raging. Even more when he's in his stance.
Ability to kill things brutally and utterly without mercy: Barbarian.

Animal · May 4, 2010

alright, that was a load of useless flame. kudos to both of you.
now back on topic. the actual answer is: no, Dragonnety, DR does not stack.

Dandu · May 4, 2010

Animal said:
alright, that was a load of useless flame. kudos to both of you.

1. It was in fact very useful.
2. Flaming is when you attack a person. Disagreeing is different.
3. StreamOfTheSky has been nothing but polite.

now back on topic. the actual answer is: no, Dragonnety, DR does not stack.

Taken from the second post on the thread:

Dragonnety said:
I just found an older post about this, sorry for not searching first and asking questions later.

StreamOfTheSky · May 5, 2010

Animal said:
alright, that was a load of useless flame. kudos to both of you.

Dandu and I were having a civil discussion/argument. What you just did is flaming. What we did at worst was a threadjack.

Animal said:
now back on topic. the actual answer is: no, Dragonnety, DR does not stack.

Actually, the answer is usually DR does not stack. There are some specific exceptions, which are always exlicitly called out. For example, the "Watchful Master" or whatever it's clled item set from the Magic Item Compendium was created with Barbarians as one of the "target" classes to most benefit from it, the set gives some DR, and the set explicitly states tht the item's DR stacks with DR from class and race. Possibly other sources of DR, too.

irdeggman · May 5, 2010

StreamOfTheSky said:
Actually, the answer is usually DR does not stack. There are some specific exceptions, which are always exlicitly called out. For example, the "Watchful Master" or whatever it's clled item set from the Magic Item Compendium was created with Barbarians as one of the "target" classes to most benefit from it, the set gives some DR, and the set explicitly states tht the item's DR stacks with DR from class and race. Possibly other sources of DR, too.

Technically the answer is it doesn't unless otherwise specified - the default is DR does not stack.

Another example where it is specifically stated that it does is the fey skin feat from Complete Mage - stacks with DR from class and race. Great for warlocks.

ValhallaGH · May 5, 2010

Dandu said:
Outclassed in my book by Deepwarden.

Unless you can't use Races of Stone in the campaign. Which, I believe, was one of the stipulations of the OP's situation.

Yes, the pre-req feats for DD are crap. I still had fun with my War Axe / Spiked Shield dwarf Ranger-Defender. With bane weapons, favored opponent, and seven attacks per round (no haste effects yet) he was a fun little meat grinder.

Now, when DD really shines is when your Barbarian went and got himself made Lawful and can't Barbarian anymore. What does your poor little dwarf do? Defenderer. (Yes, I used fake words, poorly. Deal with it.

)

Dandu · May 5, 2010

ValhallaGH said:
Unless you can't use Races of Stone in the campaign. Which, I believe, was one of the stipulations of the OP's situation.

Dragonnety said:

I am creating a dwarven defender and I stambled upon the DR.
If I Give him a dwarven plate (grants DR 3/-), does it stack with the DR that the DD gets?

Click to expand...

Where?

Click to expand...

ValhallaGH · May 5, 2010

Dandu said:
Where?

Nowhere. I believed incorrectly

. I forgot that Stream's post wasn't part of the OP's stipulations.

StreamOfTheSky said:
If it's a core-only game, Dwarven Defender is pretty good, as far as noncasting classes go. Which, if you were looking into DD to begin with, is probably the route you were headed. Now Arcane Archer? That's just plain awful, even in a core game.

StreamOfTheSky · May 5, 2010

Well, the only times I've ever seen people seriously look at Dwarven Plate and Dwarven Defender have been in core only games, due ot lack of better options. So I'd say there's a good chance the OP is playing a core only game. Sorry for the confusion, though.

Dragonnety · May 5, 2010

Actually he will be playing in a homebrew campaign setting, where most of the 3.5 books are permitted, and the player asked specifically for DD. Until now he only played characters that were made for dealing damage. This time he wanted something more defensive. We didn't look for anyhting else.

What would you propose for a dwarf that is NOT a paladin?

DR from Class and Armor

Dandu

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Animal

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Dandu

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StreamOfTheSky

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irdeggman

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ValhallaGH

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Dandu

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ValhallaGH

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StreamOfTheSky

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Dragonnety

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