Non-essentials taking essentials powers

Apologies if this question has come up before. I didn't see it answered with any citations to the rules.

So, can a non-essentials character take an essentials power? For instance, can a non-essentials rogue take a trick as a utility power, since all the tricks are classed as Rogue utility? And, by the same token, can the power swap Multiclass feats swap out an essentials power, like the Rogue Tricks?

It seems that WotC could have, very easily, classed these powers (from the essentials classes) as something else other than Utility or Attack, and in doing so they intended them to be acquired by non-essentials classes.

I am looking for a specific rules citation that answers the question, if any exists...not the CB, since the CB is not a rules source.

Thanks a ton,
g

A rogue can't take a thief trick as one if their utility choices, because the thief tricks, knight and slayer stances etc don't have a level in their descriptions.

See Replacing a Power, page 87 in the Rules Compendium.

I suppose I buy that...for now, since taking powers and retraining all discuss the level of the power. Of course the Compendium lists these as Level 0...not that the compendium is the gold standard...or is it?

If only WotC would publish an actual clear rule. Blech.

But that brings up the taking of at-will attack powers at level 1, and the swap of at-will power at level 11 with Paragon multiclassing. Neither of these rules state anything about level of the power. At-will at level 1 states that you take an at will attack "from your class list" and the paragon MC states you swap at-wills...no mention of level.

So, by RAW, this would allow some essentials-abilities-on-non-essentials shenanigans.

Hmmm....

I assume that powers in the Essentials books are kosher - like the mage's Magic Missile or Suggestion as a cantrip, AWs, or other powers. Way I look at it many of those are just updates to the PHB1 AWs.

In fact I think before Essentials came out, that WotC had said that non-essental classes could get something out of it, since they were Builds and the Powers were takable.

Just not, you know, class features.

Pretty sure one of the Multi-class/hybrid rules mentioned allowing a non-essential character to take a feat to get a rogue trick. But I think it specified you can't be a rogue multi-classing into a Thief. But this is what I"m taking from tose threads.

gaard said:

If only WotC would publish an actual clear rule. Blech.

But that brings up the taking of at-will attack powers at level 1, and the swap of at-will power at level 11 with Paragon multiclassing. Neither of these rules state anything about level of the power. At-will at level 1 states that you take an at will attack "from your class list" and the paragon MC states you swap at-wills...no mention of level.

So, by RAW, this would allow some essentials-abilities-on-non-essentials shenanigans.

Hmmm....

Click to expand...

Well, a quick and dirty "fix" would be to assume that attack and utility powers without levels are not intended to be swapped out freely, and simply substitute "1st-level at-will attack power" for all instances of "at-will attack power". I suspect that something similar must have already been done in PH3 for some of the psionic classes, which introduce at-will powers at higher levels.

In cases where the DM feels that it would not be unreasonable or problematic for a character to take an attack power with no level (the hunter and scout attack powers seem about on par with a 1st-level at-will attack power to me, for example) he could simply houserule that it can be done. It's one of the great advantages of playing with a human DM, you know.