Converting monsters from Tales From The Infinite Staircase

Cleon · Jan 27, 2017

freyar said:
I think the standard kyton's Craft (blacksmithing) is really a "mistake" compared to the Craft entry in the skills section of the SRD. Blacksmithing applies to both weaponsmithing and armorsmithing, but those are listed as separate Craft skills. So, while I understand the desire to stay similar to the SRD kyton, I don't want to propagate the problems that the SRD kyton has. It's just another example of WotC's right hand not knowing what its left hand is doing.

Anyway, after that, are these mechanically done (and ready to de-red-ify)?

I'd think Blacksmithing is for crafting generic metal goods in the Goods and Services section such as crowbars, grappling hooks and - most pertinently for kytons - chains and manacles.

Weaponsmithing and Armorsmithing is for crafting metal goods in the Weapons and Armor sections respectively.

freyar · Feb 7, 2017

Aren't chains -- at least spiked ones -- exotic weapons? Little matter, though, blacksmithing it is. These aren't interesting enough to get worked up about.

Cleon · Feb 9, 2017

freyar said:
Little matter, though, blacksmithing it is. These aren't interesting enough to get worked up about.

Yes, but a kyton's animate chains ability allows it to transform a regular chain into a spiky chain: "In addition, a chain devil can increase these chains’ length by up to 15 feet and cause them to sprout razor-edged barbs."

So maybe they use that ability to spike-ify (or rather barb-ify) all the chains they wear?

Come to think of it, the kyton's attack lines and Improved Critical feat all say "chain" rather than "spiked chain". The only mention of spiked chains is in their combat line: "A chain devil attacks by flailing away with the spiked chains that serve as its clothing, armor, and weapons".

So maybe the chains they use aren't the exotic weapon but something different?

Anyhow that's all a bit academic, considering:

freyar said:
Little matter, though, blacksmithing it is.

freyar said:
These aren't interesting enough to get worked up about.

How about we just circumvent the issue and make it Craft (any one).

Better yet, how about giving it two Craft skills and one Profession skill? That way the Skill Focus (any one Profession) can become Skill Focus (Profession).

That'd make it:

Skills: Craft (any two) +5, Intimidate +7, Listen +9, Profession (any one) +10, Spot +9
Feats: Alertness, Skill Focus (Profession)

freyar · Feb 17, 2017

That will all work for me!

CR 3 seems ok. They might not be quite as good as an ogre, but they're definitely better than a bugbear.

We can de-red the text, right?

Cleon · Feb 18, 2017

freyar said:
That will all work for me!

CR 3 seems ok. They might not be quite as good as an ogre, but they're definitely better than a bugbear.

Updating Lesser Kyton Working Draft.

freyar said:
We can de-red the text, right?

I'll leave the background redded since we need to come up with something for that, but the rest of it can go to default colour.

We've still got the Level Adjustment to decide on. A regular Kyton has +6. The lesser version has worse racial stats and a lower spell resistance, but it has the same DR and regeneration as a regular Chain Devil. Regeneration in particular is very useful for adventurers since it means they've got unlimited healing.

Hmm… maybe LA +4?

A Troll's LA +5 but has much better Str, Dex and Con and faster regeneration, plus its attacks do a LOT more damage and have the same 10 ft. reach as a Lesser Kyton's chains (average 32.5 [48.5 on a rend] vs average 10). A Troll's regeneration is far easier to circumvent though (five vs. holy) and it has worse special defences, but that is a poor substitute for doing 3-4 times as much damage and regenerating 2½ times faster.

Can you think of any other creatures with regeneration and LAs to compare the Lesser Kyton to?

freyar · Feb 23, 2017

LA +4 sounds reasonable to me, though I can't think of any good comparables off-hand.

The regular kyton background is just

SRD said:
Kytons are humanlike devils, wrapped in chains instead of clothing. A chain devil is 6 feet tall and weighs about 300 pounds, chains included.

Chain devils speak Infernal and Common.

Shall we just re-word that?

Cleon · Feb 24, 2017

freyar said:
LA +4 sounds reasonable to me, though I can't think of any good comparables off-hand.

The regular kyton background is just

Shall we just re-word that?

Let's see, the Monster Manual description isn't much longer:

The clank and rattle of chains announces the arrival of this creature. It appears human in shape and size, but chains wrap it like a shroud, every length ending in a hook or a blade or a heavy ball. The chains seems to slither and slide over the creature’s form, almost as if they were alive.

These chain-shrouded beings, also called kytons, are often mistaken for undead by those who liken them to the traditional shackle-rattling ghost. Kytons are humanlike devils, wrapped in chains instead of clothing.

A chain devil is 6 feet tall and weighs about 300 pounds, chains included.

Chain devils speak Infernal and Common.

I'm inclined to keep it simple and just modify the SRD text and add a line or two to explain they're kyton "commoners" who rarely leave Hell.

How's this:

A man-shaped form entirely covered in chains whose metal links appear to move around its body by themselves. Every chain is tipped by an unpleasant-looking tool or weapon, some are hooks, knives or spiked spheres, but others are unrecognizably strange devices.

Lesser kytons are members of the same chain devil race as the standard kytons who adventurers are familiar with, but they are weaker beings equivalent to commoners in kyton society. They almost never leave the Nine Hells but are numerous on that plane, living as workers and craftsdevils in kyton settlements under the supervision of a police force made up of standard kytons. Lesser kytons appear to be identical to standard kytons - humanoid devils dressed in chains - although another chain devil can distinguish the difference at a glance.

A lesser kyton is 6 feet tall and weighs about 300 pounds, chains included.

Chain devils speak Common and Infernal.

freyar · Mar 2, 2017

Looks good! Add that and LA +4, and they're done!

What's next up for this thread?

Cleon · Mar 2, 2017

freyar said:
Looks good! Add that and LA +4, and they're done!

Updating Lesser Kyton Working Draft.

freyar said:
What's next up for this thread?

Didn't you want to do the Chainless Kyton as an underbar?

freyar said:
Just giving it an unarmed strike is ok, but then it's very silly to have it as a separate monster. I think I'd prefer just to convert the lesser kytons and put in a sidebar about chainless kytons of lesser or normal type.

freyar · Mar 12, 2017

Oh, right, I forgot all about the chainless ones.

So all we need to say there is some flavor about kytons who've had their chains removed and replace the attack line with a nonlethal unarmed strike, right? We can indicate that they may take IUS if they advance, but they usually focus on getting their chains back, instead.

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