Hypothetical question for 3pp: 5e goes OGL what would you publish?

Alphastream

Adventurer
Dungeon World is actually a game I'm interested in playing in but it's pretty much not going to pull me away from Pathfinder. I have NO interest in 13th Age as it seems that it might have too much 4E baggage. And I have no interest in playing or running anything close to 4E again.
Maybe that's why we're having trouble seeing eye-to-eye. I'm not trying to argue this as a fan of any particular gaming system, nor as something that should in any way change what you want to do. I most certainly don't want to change what game you play. The OGL isn't great for Wizards of the Coast. What game you, I, or the next gal likes doesn't change that. How the hobby works is far bigger than any individual's preference. It has to do with the entire publishing industry and the entirety of all gamer preferences.
 

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Alphastream

Adventurer
What business in general really needs to learn, in my opinion - and especially the games business, since they should understand game systems and processes better than anybody - is how to compete constructively. So many business folk see competition as a zero-sum game. The genius of the OGL was, in part, that it saw past that. If you can get 10% more share of the pie than the next guy that's swell - but if the pie is twice as big, everybody gains!
I think the gaming industry has actually been surprisingly good about this. Monte Cook mentioned how when he started at ICE the company was very clear that TSR was not the enemy. They knew it was a big enough industry and that DnD helped by bringing new players, some of whom would decide they wanted to find a different game and end up ICE's customers. It reminded me of what the CEO of WotC said in September: "We’re not in a share game; we never have been. I’ve been with Wizards of the Coast for five years and we’ve always talked about how our role is to build the hobby gaming industry. We’ve said that from the beginning; we stick by that now. I wish the best of luck to all hobby game manufacturers. All of them."

"These days" that may well be true - but both managers and designers seemed to lack exposure in the past.
I have the same feeling, though I really can't be sure. Gamers tend to like games and the TSR line often showed outside influences. A game like Alternity, for example, is ripe with borrowing from other systems, despite being at a time when many would have called TSR overly insular.

I did think of a way the OGL could help WotC with D&D Next. It could be an effective way of trying to eclipse the old OGL. If the industry rallied to a new OGL, they might feel less inclined to keep writing for an older OGL based off of 3E and shift to one based off of Next. Enough momentum and the industry might largely move focus to Next. I still don't see that as great for Wizards or the hobby (for all the previously stated reasons), but I could see it being a rationale WotC might use. If combined with at least some revenue sharing or a distribution platform similar to iTunes, it could be enough to make it a positive from the business side.
 

Alphastream

Adventurer
I just assumed the reprints were there to fill the gap until DDN. I didn't think thee was much in a way of motive further than that, though capturing some old school players would be a nice bonus.
It could be, though Greg Leads' comments certainly state that they plan on supporting both 4E and 3E with Next products long-term. I just doubt the sales of 2E and 3E reprints were very high. Maybe they were.

I also recall a visit to a store where they had an incredibly confusing D&D shelf: 3E reprints, AD&D reprints, two 4E books, an Essentials DM Kit... it was about as incoherent a way to present a game to a casual/new player as one could imagine! The Paizo shelf above it was excellent: clear sets of books that communicated core material, starter set, and add-ons. I don't care about competition - the market is plenty big enough for both. It was just sad to know how confused a new gamer would be by that shelf. I don't think that shelf serves WotC well. Of course, it should improve drastically with Next.
 
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Balesir

Adventurer
I think the gaming industry has actually been surprisingly good about this. Monte Cook mentioned how when he started at ICE the company was very clear that TSR was not the enemy. They knew it was a big enough industry and that DnD helped by bringing new players, some of whom would decide they wanted to find a different game and end up ICE's customers. It reminded me of what the CEO of WotC said in September: "We’re not in a share game; we never have been. I’ve been with Wizards of the Coast for five years and we’ve always talked about how our role is to build the hobby gaming industry. We’ve said that from the beginning; we stick by that now. I wish the best of luck to all hobby game manufacturers. All of them."
As a general rule, possibly, but the tenor of the 4E launch didn't seem to encapsulate that in any way.

In a way it may be stranger still - WotC wishing all their competitors well except their historical selves! I think that's what seems to be missing; acknowledgement that past editions are competition like any other, and should be treated just the same.

Which brings up another point: WotC should be publishing adventures that are adapted for (or have conversion notes for on-line or wherever) 13th Age, Dungeon World and Pathfinder. The OGL works both ways!

I did think of a way the OGL could help WotC with D&D Next. It could be an effective way of trying to eclipse the old OGL. If the industry rallied to a new OGL, they might feel less inclined to keep writing for an older OGL based off of 3E and shift to one based off of Next. Enough momentum and the industry might largely move focus to Next. I still don't see that as great for Wizards or the hobby (for all the previously stated reasons), but I could see it being a rationale WotC might use. If combined with at least some revenue sharing or a distribution platform similar to iTunes, it could be enough to make it a positive from the business side.
If 4E had been OGL then it might have attracted 3pp attention and diluted the Pathfinder focus? Sure - another reason OGL 4E would (IMO) have been good for WotC. And it still might have some effect for DDN, but WotC are already (needlessly) behind the game with OGL. We are already seeing the split between "the OGL companies" and WotC, and the former's lead is stretching all the time. Would that have been so had 4E been OGL? I don't think so. Sure, there would have been other OGL games and a competitive market - but WotC would have been part of it, not its bête noir.
 

Zireael

Explorer
My worry is that no such license appears; in which case you've Kickstarted and taken money for something you can't legally provide. It seems like it could risk upsetting people. There's delivery dates of Feb 2014 on that Kickstarter. ((Then again, I'm sure folks would be understanding and wait longer for the DDN stuff - most Kickstarters, including my own, don't meet the schedules).

That's a valid point. Is there any news on any sort of a license for 5e?
 

darjr

I crit!
Two 3pp have come forward here and said that they have been told Next will be OGL. As in the 3.5 OGL. One of them has said that the CEO of WotC has already signed off on it.

Nothing from WotC about any of it so far.
 

Tom Strickland

First Post
Next Using the OGL Would be "Good" for the D&D Ecosystem

Based upon what I know of the 3.x "prime" era, the 3rd party products seemed to contain some level of admixture of new rules and content. I personally have been satisfied with the crunchiness of the official and also numerous other vendor products sharing the same core mechanics. What fascinated me was a good setting or flavor of fantasy adventure, role-playing, strategy and tactics. (This is based upon having accumulated and reviewed hundreds of physical resources, and thousands of digital resources.)

Consequently, I would publish one or more resources that tailored the open rules into a cohesive, interesting, and unique enough play experience within a familiar framework. (I have some excellent "King Arthur", "Dying Earth" and other 3pp 3.x materials aside from the official GH, DS, FRCS, etc., as examples of what I consider to be appealing, and would therefore want to publish.)

A simple analogy is how it has been said that a campaign could be tailored for "Swords and Sorcery" as with Conan the Barbarian. That indicates what will happen regarding magic use by players and--in contrast--denizens of that world. Some people enjoy that setting enough to commit to it whereas others do not. The new rules, descriptive text, tweaks, etc., would be popular enough to drive sales, or not.

This is my opinion, and I would plan to market to those who somewhat share this opinion. Others would market major changes to the settings or rules, including alternates or variants (e.g. magic). By the way, as a gamer I was happy to continue to look for new resources in the same 3.5 system there at "the end", and make incremental changes. The requirement to change has only ever been presented to me as an economic one for the prime vendor (because tweaking the system as some players wanted didn't necessarily require ending the existing line), and where that economic decision intersects with an existing customer base is how much money, time and effort will be required to retire or adapt perfectly good props for something newer, better and shinier, all while being told that being nostalgic is for dinosaurs.

The discussion about the licensing and control over a product line is key to the economic realities of products and services. There are proprietary and open source software models. They work. They have rationales and approaches.

I am a firm advocate of protecting IP/content. If a WotC wants to magnify its market share by providing a "standard" or "platform" where others can make money, that is great. Consider the number of open and proprietary software programs that run on Windows (operating systems), and also sometimes compete with Microsoft products (software applications)--MS commands so much market share for OS's primarily because there is so much do there, beyond what they could ever practically provide themselves. But also consider how MS got into the console market because ostensibly they can better control 3rd party product quality--but really, they get a share of every physical cartridge.

If WotC wants a share of every 3pp product, there are analogous examples, and some will take advantage of the situation, and there will be some market for it. (like consoles or some smartphones)

If WotC wants to invite numerous vendors to make money on their own content while running on a standard platform (and agreeing to certain guidelines and respecting the rights of the provider), then that will work too. (like 3rd party apps on Windows or other popular OS)

If they instead want to be their own internally participating ecosystem of publishing because of their greater resources, then, of course, that is already in play. (like a consumer device where changes are only driven by the vendor)

So to me, it is really a question of what business and financial short and long-term considerations will become pre-eminent to the decision-makers for this 800 lb. gorilla in the role-playing market space.

I will transition, as a gamer, if there is something appealing about the ease and consistency of this next edition, without changing the flavor in a way I do not prefer (like emulating MMORGs). I will participate in that market as a provider if there is a (friendly) standard and contributors receive their due rewards for effective marketing of quality products, while practicing good business. As has been said by others in previous posts, it need not be a "zero sum game."
 

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