D&D 5E Advantage / Disadvantage in 5e

Emerikol · Jul 2, 2014

Agamon said:
This is why DM fiat is a wonderful thing. If it's obvious that someone is at disadvantage 6 times over, a single slight advantage might not be able to negate it (or vise versa), if I were running the game.

This is probably my take too. I don't need to do addition. I can just look over all the reasons for disadvantage and advantage and make a judgment call. For example, for me the penalty for long range is something very hard to overcome so that disadvantage is a strong one in my opinion.

Nebulous · Jul 2, 2014

Emerikol said:
This is probably my take too. I don't need to do addition. I can just look over all the reasons for disadvantage and advantage and make a judgment call. For example, for me the penalty for long range is something very hard to overcome so that disadvantage is a strong one in my opinion.

Hmm. I like that too, sort of "weighted" Advantage or Disadvantage. pure DM fiat ultimately, which is cool.

Uchawi · Jul 3, 2014

I am more for the DM experience so if I find advantage/disadvantage is too simple for my tastes and then decide to go with static modifiers then I don't want the game to fall apart because the mechanic was used everywhere. Dice averaging leads to different expectations and outcomes versus static modifiers and single dice rolls.

TarionzCousin · Jul 3, 2014

Agamon said:
Even better:

Roll 2 dice, throw away the one that failed you!

Even more betterer:

Toss the disappointing die into the wood stove!

I saw a friend do this after a dozen terrible rolls, simultaneously yelling to his other dice "See what happens when you fail me!!!"

He fished the die out a couple hours later and it was surprisingly non-melted. However, one side had burned down a bit, essentially making it a 21 sided die.

GMMichael · Feb 28, 2015

Trying to recycle a good threadname here...

I just ran some numbers, and I'm seeing that advantage is MORE than an average +5 to your roll. It's +6.65.

In a game of Bounded Accuracy, that's huge.

Here's how I got the number:[sblock]
Roll two d20s, and you get 400 possible outcomes. Of those outcomes, 20 give you the same result on the die, so they're +0. Of the rest, there are no negative bonuses, because you always take the higher number. So on one end, there are 38 ways to get a +1 out of advantage. On the other, there are only 2 ways to get a +19 bonus out of advantage. Add all the bonuses from all the outcomes together, divide them by 400, and you get 6.65.[/sblock]

Let's put it this way: if you have advantage on a check, you get the proficiency bonus of a 20th level character, plus 0.65, on average.

Is my math wrong? Does advantage seem reasonable in this light?

Mark CMG · Feb 28, 2015

Nebulous said:
Advantage / Disadvantage in 5e

I find this to be one of the most interesting innovations in the game (wherever it comes from). It certainly can speed up gameplay tremendously. That it swings beyond +5 either way doesn't trouble me much but I GM mostly so I have plenty more creatures where the dying ones came from and the players have plenty of healing resources. It can be as dangerous as various critical hit house rules though less permanent.

Gecko85 · Feb 28, 2015

DMMike said:
Trying to recycle a good threadname here...

I just ran some numbers, and I'm seeing that advantage is MORE than an average +5 to your roll. It's +6.65.

In a game of Bounded Accuracy, that's huge.

Here's how I got the number:[sblock]
Roll two d20s, and you get 400 possible outcomes. Of those outcomes, 20 give you the same result on the die, so they're +0. Of the rest, there are no negative bonuses, because you always take the higher number. So on one end, there are 38 ways to get a +1 out of advantage. On the other, there are only 2 ways to get a +19 bonus out of advantage. Add all the bonuses from all the outcomes together, divide them by 400, and you get 6.65.[/sblock]

Let's put it this way: if you have advantage on a check, you get the proficiency bonus of a 20th level character, plus 0.65, on average.

Is my math wrong? Does advantage seem reasonable in this light?

Here you go: http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questi...taking-the-highest-affect-the-average-outcome

Nebulous · Feb 28, 2015

yeah, i was very, very skeptical when I first read about Adv/Dis, but in play it is really useful and not overbearing at all, as I thought it might be. I thought that too much of the game would hinge on it round after round of combat, and that's not the case.

Gecko85 · Feb 28, 2015

Gecko85 said:
Here you go: http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questi...taking-the-highest-affect-the-average-outcome

So, I did the rest of the math, taking an average of the percent increase in the chance to roll any given number on a d20 if you roll two dice and take the higher of the two. The avg is 16.625%. Since the chance of rolling any single number on a d20 is 5%, then the avg bonus for advantage is +3.325.

GMMichael · Feb 28, 2015

Gecko85 said:
Here you go: http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questi...taking-the-highest-affect-the-average-outcome

These guys got it wrong, or at least, not what I was looking for. The 94% answer provides the percent chance that you'll roll any particular number, which isn't a comparison of two numbers. It also includes the probability that at least a particular number will be rolled, which again, isn't the difference between two rolls (which would be the bonus earned).

The second-best answer also asks: what are my odds of getting a certain result with two dice? Versus: what is the average distance between two die results?

Gecko, I think your new results are skewed because, for one thing, they assume that there is an average 16.625% increase in your roll, even if you roll 20.

PS - Does the rest of this thread say that it takes ONLY ONE disadvantange to negate all advantages? Because that is not how I read the rules at all.

D&D 5E Advantage / Disadvantage in 5e

Emerikol

Adventurer

Nebulous

Legend

Uchawi

First Post

TarionzCousin

Second Most Angelic Devil Ever

GMMichael

Guide of Modos

Mark CMG

Creative Mountain Games

Gecko85

Explorer