CODENAME: MORNINGSTAR Kickstarter Launched - and it's for PATHFINDER!

Newtonian · Dec 7, 2014

Nikosandros said:
One more question, if I may.

Some GM levels include 5 player licenses. Are those licenses "floating", so that the original owner can transfer them to different players, or are those for a single specific user forever once assigned?

The GM could have control over those 5 licenses, yes. At the end of the Kickstarter, we're going to ask for 5 email addresses for those licenses to be assigned to. You could create 5 email addresses and have them each point back to you, then each account can have multiple characters/logbooks to run for whomever might be using it at the time.

I will say though, this isn't exactly optimal. An individual account contains all the characters one person might want to create and all the game groups they would want to be a part of.

TLDR; One account for many people could work, but it won't be as good of an experience as for one person.

Newtonian · Dec 7, 2014

Adammar said:
Actually it leaves me a bit more confused.

You say that Morningstar was designed to be open in its implementation of rules but only to one particular rules system and that some of the modules were designed to work irrespective of system but that they won't be open either and the Kickstarter is to retool the system from a comparatively simple rule set to a exponentially more complex rule set.

It seems like a grand vision but one that is vague in its execution. Add to that an unrealistic deadline - Honestly, you weren't able to get a working character creator for 3 systems in the time that worked with 5e, how are you going to implement a pathfinder character creator and other modules that interconnect properly. Maybe I just can't see it because I'm not as close as you are but it seems from a gamers experience that you have bitten off more then you can chew and the "swinging for the fences" attitude seems overly optimistic especially after the failed arrangement (for whatever reason) the company just experienced.

Well, to be clear, we did have a working character generator and management tool last August. We had it within about 6 weeks of getting the finalized PHB (which arrived mid-June). We just couldn't release it. Web and Android were behind iOS because we expected to use revenues from iOS to help fund the completion of the other platforms. We didn't expect that we would hit irreconcilable differences with WotC so late in the game.

Here's the vision of how Morningstar will work with rules systems: We're starting with support of the PRD--and we will support 5e to whatever capacity we are able if/when WotC announces their licensing intentions. While you won't be able to roll up characters with any rule system, you'll be able to run adventures and manage your parties agnostically.

Newtonian · Dec 7, 2014

fjw70 said:
Will the functionality to create your own adventures be part of the Forge subscription? I would love the functionality to create adventures on my iPad and stock them with monster stats from my edition of choice (even if I have to manually input my own monsters stats) but I am not interested in a subscription model.

Oh yea! That's what it's designed for

.

soulcatcher78 · Dec 8, 2014

Sad that it's only Pathfinder.

I was ready to pay at Gen Con for a 5E version after seeing the iOS version but I just don't have use for this system. It'd be nice to see 5E supported in the future and I would be happy to revisit this again once that happens.

Zardnaar · Dec 8, 2014

Newtonian said:
As in the D&D side... here's my answer:

We have about 28 days to see if this is something the Tabletop community will invest in. It's a grand experiment, and we're swinging for the fences. I think everybody wants this. We demoed the app to over 500 people at Gen Con, and the reception we got convinced us that this is something the genre needs. Do you have kids? This is the app that will get them into tabletop gaming. We've already seen it happen with our playtests.

As far as carving the project into smaller chunks...we thought seriously about that but decided against it. Morningstar is designed to make each of these modules work together, making each more valuable as a whole. You don't build a car by asking for funds to build a chassis with wheels and ask people to drive it while we work on the doors.

As far as platforms, we already have the infrastructure in place to do all 3 platforms (iOS, Android, and Web). Only supporting iOS would be disingenuous about the scope of the project we're shooting for. And besides, we'd lose about 3/4 of our potential audience by doing that.

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?379669-Dungeonscape-Lives!/page21#ixzz3LE4jybeD

This is exactly how several software houses are doing things. They release a basic version for free or cheap and then you layer on additional stuff later or pay for the content you want. Subscription models get old fast when you are paying for a monthly content and you can pay more money for extras though. Did not like DDI much and had that for 3 years (1 of them was a mistake forgot to cancel auto renewal). That was mostly due to the game content not the actual stuff itself as I would like to have something like that for 3.5 at the time.

I did mention this kickstarter to some of my players who were interested in the 5E version but are unlikely to be interested in the Pathfinder version as we already have that stuff in dead tree format and the PRD is free. I'll wait until after Christmas and see if I can do a whip around and throw something towards the kickstarter. $10 each X5,X6, X7 or something like that just to see if you can do it and have something to release until WoTC decides on what they want to do with 5E.

talsharien · Dec 8, 2014

Just get Herolab, it is already out, proven to be excellent!!!

ExploderWizard · Dec 8, 2014

Newtonian said:
The product was close to the finish line with 5e content, but being that we can't release it, we have to refactor it. In truth, we think great stories and campaign settings are system agnostic. The rules, at the end of the day...aren't THAT important. It's more about the stories. We're using the money to build in the rest of the publishing and content creation system, and refactoring to pull out 5e.

Newtonian said:
Here's the vision of how Morningstar will work with rules systems: We're starting with support of the PRD--and we will support 5e to whatever capacity we are able if/when WotC announces their licensing intentions. While you won't be able to roll up characters with any rule system, you'll be able to run adventures and manage your parties agnostically.

I don't see all that much value in systemless tools. If I get software to help with a tabletop game then its the system stuff that is worth buying.

Here is a scenario where I would find software to be helpful:

A situation arises and suddenly, I have an opportunity to run an adventure but only have a few hours to prep. I have a map, and a general idea for the adventure. What I need are NPCs and monster statblocks, treasures and things to fill up the map. A tool that would be of use would HAVE to have system specific data.

If I have produce all the statblocks by hand, what does the tool do for me? I don't use any electronics while actually at the table. Electronic tools need to be useful in prep to do the tedious stuff.

Osgood · Dec 8, 2014

Newtonian said:
I would encourage you to talk to someone who worked on the iOS version. It had a much better example of the level of quality we were striving for, even if the web version didn't show it.

I was in the iOS beta, and I can say it was significantly better than the web beta. I can't say for sure if it would have lived up to the promise, as the DM tools weren't ready yet, but I had high praise for what was implemented.

That said, I won't be backing it because I don't play Pathfinder, and despite the claim that the system doesn't matter for a tool like this, I think it absolutely does (and if the system really doesn't matter, why bother with the PSRD any way?).

For my players, the biggest draw was having full details on spell, feats, and rules available at the tap of a button (and while I am sure the ability to manually enter such things will be included, most in my group consider that more of a hassle than thumbing through a book). For me, as a DM, having all (or most of) the monsters, traps, hazards, and magic items items ready to drop into an adventure is what I care about... without that system-specific information embedded, the tool is not much better than a Word document I load onto my iPad.

I wish Trapdoor the best of luck, and hope things pan out for them. If a 5E OGL allows the tool to meet my needs, I will happily make room in the budget. Until then, it's of no use to me.

Crispy Critter · Dec 8, 2014

I'll be backing this. By the way have you announced this on the Paizo boards? I haven't seen anything and you might get better traction there by posting something in the Compatible Products by Other Publishers forum.

Jester David · Dec 8, 2014

Newtonian said:
We're still evaluating the pricing structure for the Forge, but the most reasonable one seems to be subscription. The reason for this is that it's a supported toolkit that will undergo updates and improvements ongoingly. Look at Unreal 4, Unity 3d, CryEngine... all of them require a subscription to use. It's a standard model for a tool like this.

I should note that as far as I know...DDI is the only reason people hate subscription models. Let's be clear. They did it wrong. They didn't let you keep your content when you discontinued...they didn't let you export, they didn't let you do a bunch of stuff. We are not them. Our subscription model will be very flexible and friendly.

DDI wasn't fun at the end, but that's not why I hate subscriptions.

Paying for patches and necessary fixes is annoying. (I also hate it when an app suggests I rebuy it because they redesigned the app.) Similarly, paying a monthly fee to use a product I already bought always feels like extortion. "Here's the sample of the content. To get everything we need even more money." That's the MMO model, and even those programs are moving away.

Paying for a server seems unneeded, when the program is designed to be used locally. Uploading a player handout to some remote server so it can be downloaded onto other devices seems silly when all might be connected on my local network. Especially when there's so many free services out there, like Dropbox. (I know HeroLabs lets you store characters on Dropbox.) If sharing pictures or digital handouts, I just use iMessenge at my table to send to iPads.

Paying to share content also seems problematic. The best way to get people excited about the program is to see what other people are doing. When you look at see the cool stuff other people are doing with a program it inspires you to try harder. If that's behind a paywall then that content is invisible to most users.